1 Topic by Kanade (edited by Kanade 02-04-2013 13:49:40)

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Topic: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

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Hello, I'm currently having various problems with SVP. I've just installed lite version of SVP with the latest fddshow and avisynch to play videos smoothly on my potplayer.
FYI, I have other components already installed and updated via following this guide: http://imouto.my/configuring-potplayer- … -decoding/

After installing the components and presetting according to http://www.svp-team.com/wiki/Watching_anime the video played smoothly for both 720p and 1080p. However, I started to experience all sorts of problems which I have no idea to fix:
- The player crashes a lot for both 720 and 1080. It crashes while on windowed and full screen mode. Sometimes it crashes with the error message (such as C++ error or "not responding" messages), other times the player closes by itself without a sign
- I can see a small jitter/stuttering for some scenes
- There are massive delays in seeking during playback

As a result, I'm not able to watch the videos peacefully and I don't know what to configure to fix these problems.

Here are my specs:
http://i.imgur.com/Yu0hQBl.png
This is the profile for playing 720p:
http://i.imgur.com/RXSaqKS.png
This is for 1080:
http://i.imgur.com/RXlkgD7.png

If your need any more info, please tell me.
Thank you.


P.S Ultimately, I was bothered with jerkiness/choppiness of the video while the camera was tilting or panning when watching anime. As a result, I found out that since my monitor only supports 60Hz, the only solution for this problem is to get a monitor that supports multiple 24Hz or use SVP.

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

Kanade
1. It will be great if you send all potplayer errors details to us. Error text, error number, module name. You can find it in windows log or to collect manually after press error details when error occurs.
2. Small jitter can be for several reasons. Check first is tearing test line moves smoothly without jitter (ctrl-win-T).
3. Delays on rewind is a problem. We work on it. You can adjust it in SVP menu - stop smooth on rewind option.
4. Did you try smooth video option in madVR renderer?

3 Reply by Kanade (edited by Kanade 03-04-2013 06:20:37)

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

MAG79 wrote:

Kanade
1. It will be great if you send all potplayer errors details to us. Error text, error number, module name. You can find it in windows log or to collect manually after press error details when error occurs.
2. Small jitter can be for several reasons. Check first is tearing test line moves smoothly without jitter (ctrl-win-T).
3. Delays on rewind is a problem. We work on it. You can adjust it in SVP menu - stop smooth on rewind option.
4. Did you try smooth video option in madVR renderer?

Thank you for the reply.

1. How do I get access to the error logs on potplayer?  Also, I'm not able to press error details as the messages don't have them or the potplayer shuts down without any error messages.
Though, I was able to take a screenshot:
http://i.imgur.com/C0cu38R.png
Mind you, this message doesn't ALWAYS pop up whenever potplayer crashes. Sometimes it shows, other times potplayer closes by itself or crashed without any messages etc.

2. I don't think I have any jitters/tearing problem as the test line moves smoothly.
I don't know how to say this exactly but the problem I'm referring to is where the picture/text during playback "shakes" or "vibrates"... like it doesn't effect the whole screen but it effects specific images, texts and subtitles.
I'll try to take a sample video and upload it.

3. Where is that "stop smooth on rewind option"? I couldn't find it on profile nor context menu on SVP.

4. "Smooth video option" as in smooth motion? Yes I have that enabled and the problem still occurs with it.
I currently disabled it as someone told me its no good when using SVP but I'm not sure...


I'm really a novice in this so please bear with me.

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

Kanade
It's OK. I can explain something not clear to you.

1. It is difficult to find the problem without any details about crashes. This picture tells nothing specific about error.
2. I think you tell about interpolation artifacts. Do you?
3. Sorry. It is lost in translation. SVP menu - Turn off on seek.
4. Yes, smooth motion. I typed it not on PC, sorry for not exact terms. smooth motion in madVR is hardware analog to SVP blend frames to screen refresh rate option. It is usefull if you interpolate 24 to 48 and then blend to 60 fps.

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

MAG79 wrote:

Kanade
It's OK. I can explain something not clear to you.

1. It is difficult to find the problem without any details about crashes. This picture tells nothing specific about error.
2. I think you tell about interpolation artifacts. Do you?
3. Sorry. It is lost in translation. SVP menu - Turn off on seek.
4. Yes, smooth motion. I typed it not on PC, sorry for not exact terms. smooth motion in madVR is hardware analog to SVP blend frames to screen refresh rate option. It is usefull if you interpolate 24 to 48 and then blend to 60 fps.

1. Yes, that's why I asked can you tell me how to get error logs from potplayer?
As for windows log, is this what you want?
Log Name:      Application
Source:        Application Error
Date:          3/04/2013 5:11:31 PM
Event ID:      1000
Task Category: (100)
Level:         Error
Keywords:      Classic
User:          N/A
Computer:      Eric-PC
Description:
Faulting application name: PotPlayerMini.exe, version: 0.0.0.0, time stamp: 0x508fa0c9
Faulting module name: PotPlayer.dll, version: 1.5.35431.0, time stamp: 0x51008e0e
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Fault offset: 0x000ca743
Faulting process id: 0x48ac
Faulting application start time: 0x01ce303189e3e9ca
Faulting application path: C:\Program Files (x86)\LAV Filters\x86\PotPlayer\PotPlayerMini.exe
Faulting module path: C:\Program Files (x86)\LAV Filters\x86\PotPlayer\PotPlayer.dll
Report Id: 53606799-9c25-11e2-8237-00acc0a02055
Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="Application Error" />
    <EventID Qualifiers="0">1000</EventID>
    <Level>2</Level>
    <Task>100</Task>
    <Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2013-04-03T06:11:31.000000000Z" />
    <EventRecordID>66721</EventRecordID>
    <Channel>Application</Channel>
    <Computer>Eric-PC</Computer>
    <Security />
  </System>
  <EventData>
    <Data>PotPlayerMini.exe</Data>
    <Data>0.0.0.0</Data>
    <Data>508fa0c9</Data>
    <Data>PotPlayer.dll</Data>
    <Data>1.5.35431.0</Data>
    <Data>51008e0e</Data>
    <Data>c0000005</Data>
    <Data>000ca743</Data>
    <Data>48ac</Data>
    <Data>01ce303189e3e9ca</Data>
    <Data>C:\Program Files (x86)\LAV Filters\x86\PotPlayer\PotPlayerMini.exe</Data>
    <Data>C:\Program Files (x86)\LAV Filters\x86\PotPlayer\PotPlayer.dll</Data>
    <Data>53606799-9c25-11e2-8237-00acc0a02055</Data>
  </EventData>
</Event>

2. I'll upload a sample video.

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

Kanade
can you tell me how to get error logs from potplayer?
I don't know. I'm not PotPlayer developer. hmm

As for windows log, is this what you want?
Yes. It is more specific. Thank you.

Faulting application name: PotPlayerMini.exe, version: 0.0.0.0, time stamp: 0x508fa0c9
Faulting module name: PotPlayer.dll, version: 1.5.35431.0, time stamp: 0x51008e0e
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Fault offset: 0x000ca743

It is PotPlayer's error. Not SVP. You need to contact PotPlayer author and send him this information about error.

7 Reply by Kanade (edited by Kanade 03-04-2013 11:23:48)

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

Okay I'll do that.

As for the picture problem, I've uploaded a sample video of it.
Please download it and see it for yourself. I don't know the technical term for it  and I don't know if this falls into "interpolation artifacts".
http://depositfiles.com/files/htjpvufbv

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

Kanade
Thank you for video explanation.
I see. It is so called dragonfly artifacts. Objects in the frame moved by vectors of background. Airplane shakes its wings like a dragonfly. It is kind of interpolation error.

http://www.svp-team.com/forum/misc.php?item=2462

You can decrease amount of dragonfly artifacts by two ways:
1. by changing SVP-shader from 2.Sharp to 13.Standard or to 23.Complicated. In addition it increase smoothness but it decrease sharpness a bit.
2. by enabling Artifacts masking to Average or to Above normal. But it decrease local smoothness a bit.

Post's attachments

Dragonfly_artifacts.gif, 197.42 kb, 624 x 225
Dragonfly_artifacts.gif 197.42 kb, 794 downloads since 2013-04-03 

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

Thank you for the reply.

After testing various vidoes:
1. Changing SVP shader to standard/complicated: It didn't do anything as the "Drangonfly artifacts" are still there
2. Enabling artifacts masking to average/above normal:
        - For average, it didn't do anything as the effect is still there
        - For above average, it reduced the dragonfly artifacts by a lot however, it didn't completely remove it as I can still see the effect
        - For strongest, the effect is completely gone but there are no smoothness during pan/tilt shots. It's same as watching without SVP.

As a result, from what I can see the best option is to enable artifacts masking to above average however the effect is still visible and it hinders my viewing experience.

Is there any other thing I can try? because the current ones don't seem to remove the drangonfly artifacts completely.

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

Kanade
There are two causes of dragonfly artifacts:
1. Some objects have wrong vectors (vectors of background). Error of vector search algo. It is because big vectors grid size and small search radius.
2. Some objects have very small or thin size that smaller than grid size. Such objects can not be interpolated correctly by current SVP algo. It is lack of current frame interpolation algo.

Try to decrease Motion vectors grid step from 24 to 16 or to 8.
Try to encrese Search radius.

In simple cases it ill help. But in hard cases SVP will give artifacts on any settings. By now dragonfly artifacts can not be removed completly.

11 Reply by Kanade (edited by Kanade 04-04-2013 10:46:26)

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

Thank you for the information about dragonfly artifacts. Now I can understand it better.

Your right, looks like I won't be able to remove the artifacts completely... after trying different combinations, this is the setting I find the best with minimum dragonfly artifacts:
http://i.imgur.com/7g2kR6V.png
It removes the noticeable and big ones but I can still see small texts having dragonfly artifacts.

Is there anything else I can try?? If this is the best we could do, then it can't be helped I guess... but if there is more tweaking I can try to remove dragon fly artifacts completely, then I'm more than happy to try it.
Also, do I apply the above settings to 1920x1080 profile as well? Or will they have to be set differently?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alright, so this is totally different from dragonfly artifacts and its the last problem I would like to get help.

Apparently, when I seek fast/repeatedly during playback:
- I don't see the current frame immediately instead I see previous frames all flashing
- It sometimes freezes the player (not the computer, just the player itself)
- have very long delays

Is there any solutions for this?

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

Kanade
Did you try change option "SVP menu - Turn off on seek"?

I see previous frames all flashing
It can be only if you selected "Dont turn off". It is ffdShow buffer's work. All we can do is to make some tricks.

BTW. I preparing additional solution to "SVP menu - Turn off on seek" menu. You will see it in next SVP version.

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

MAG79 wrote:

Kanade
Did you try change option "SVP menu - Turn off on seek"?

I see previous frames all flashing
It can be only if you selected "Dont turn off". It is ffdShow buffer's work. All we can do is to make some tricks.

BTW. I preparing additional solution to "SVP menu - Turn off on seek" menu. You will see it in next SVP version.

Yes, I did set it to "Dont turn off". What you mean by "make some tricks"? Do you mean as in seek slowly and not fast?

Alright I'll wait for the next update then.

One more thing, to update any components (for example: SVP lite, fddshow and avisynch) do I download the latest installers and just run them?
Or do I have to delete everything first and than install?

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

Kanade
Do you mean as in seek slowly and not fast?
No. I mean programmers trincks. Just released in SVP. You can see them in "SVP menu - Turn off on seek" option.

One more thing, to update any components (for example: SVP lite, fddshow and avisynch) do I download the latest installers and just run them?
Or do I have to delete everything first and than install?
If you advanced user and use a lot of software that uses avisynth/ffdShow then install them separately manually. Otherwise just douwnload and install SVP_full. Last version of SVP usually contains all last versions of used compinents.

15 Reply by Kanade (edited by Kanade 06-04-2013 00:25:46)

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

Alright.

So just to double check, is there anything more I can try for removing dragonfly artifacts?

Also, I get this error message time to time when I open a file to play:
http://i.imgur.com/Z7y2D8B.png

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

Kanade
If you have any antivirus software then you need to disable virus check in this folder. You need add to exception list your folder: C:\Users\Eric\AppData\Roaming\SVP 3.1\Logs
Error appears because avisynth can not write to file just created by him. AV soft is taking this file for some time. It is unexpected to avisynth.

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

Okay, thank you for the info.

Lastly, sorry for being persistent but is there anything else I can try to remove the dragonfly artifacts completely?

Thank you.

18 Reply by Kanade (edited by Kanade 08-04-2013 22:52:13)

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

For this point:

4. Yes, smooth motion. I typed it not on PC, sorry for not exact terms. smooth motion in madVR is hardware analog to SVP blend frames to screen refresh rate option. It is usefull if you interpolate 24 to 48 and then blend to 60 fps.

Could you explain what you mean by interpolate 24 to 48 and then blend to 60 fps? How do I do this with using SVP?

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

Kanade
1. via SVP only:

http://www.svp-team.com/forum/misc.php?item=2474

2. Intepolating via SVP & blending via madVR:
- in SVP select frame doubling: Double click on icon ehan playing - Target frame rate: Double source frame rate - OK;
- in madVR enable smooth motion: rendering - smooth motion - enable - OK

is there anything else I can try to remove the dragonfly artifacts completely?
You can try to change any settings. All main settings I told you before. You can reduce visibility of artifacts but it is impossible to remove this kind of artifatcs completely.

Post's attachments

FrameDoubling_&_ConvertFPS.png, 25.46 kb, 451 x 714
FrameDoubling_&_ConvertFPS.png 25.46 kb, 864 downloads since 2013-04-08 

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

For 1. via SVP only:, I'm getting error message as shown below:
http://i.imgur.com/2ry5HZI.jpg
The message keeps popping up throughout the video.

For 2. Intepolating via SVP & blending via madVR:, I'm not sure if its actually blending it to 60fps:
http://i.imgur.com/wTPiWtY.png

So overall, is it best to use either of these methods to "reduce" the visibility of artifacts? Could you clarify the benefits of using these methods?

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

Kanade
I'm getting error message as shown...

SVP performance is too low.
Try to lower the profile settings. (SVP Index=0.81x)

Thank you. It was error of SVP-Index calculation. It is fixed.
Just exit SVP Manager, unpack fix to "Program Files\SVP 3.1" folder and run SVP Manager again.

Post's attachments

SVPMgr314.913_SVPIndex_while_FrameBlending_fix.zip 544.5 kb, 847 downloads since 2013-04-11 

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

Thank you, the error message is gone.

However, what is the benefit of using this interpolate and blending?

I don't quite get the use of this settings.

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

I would appreciate it if you can reply my last post.

I still don't know the advantage and disadvantage of using this method of interpolate/blending.

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

Kanade
Lets compare two ways of getting 60 fps from 24 fps source:
1. framedoubling (frame interpolating) to 48 fps and then frameblending to 60 fps.
2. frame interpolating to 60 fps.

Smoothness. Best without blending.
1. frameblending adds dissolve of frames and in fact you see 48 fps video at 60 Hz screen.
2. each frame has its movements. So, it looks more smooth.

Sharpness. Best without blending.
1. frameblending adds dissolve of frames. Only slow motions look good but fast motions has double contours.
2. each object in each frame has its position. So, it looks more sharp.

Artifactless. Best with blending.
1. after framedoubling video has 24 original frames and 24 interpolated frames. Artifacts may appears only on interpolated frames. Frameblending not adds new artifacts. So, we have 24 interpolated frames in each second.
2. when 5:2 interpolation is used video has only 12 original frames and 48 interpolated frames. So, we have 48 interpolated frames in each second what is twice more. It has twice more artifacts potentially.

25 Reply by Kanade (edited by Kanade 20-04-2013 16:05:28)

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Re: A lot of problems when using SVP for potplayer (watching anime)

MAG79

Thank you for the information.

So the first method 1. framedoubling (frame interpolating) to 48 fps and then frameblending to 60 fps. is the one you explained before? (therefore, use either 1. via SVP only or 2. Intepolating via SVP & blending via madVR)
And using either of these method will result in artifactless?
 
As for second method frame interpolating to 60 fps, how do you do that?
And how do you achieve smoothness and sharpness?

I'm sorry, I'm still confused on the two methods you have explained as well as three effects (smoothness, sharpness and artifactless).