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Topic: ReClock Problems

Not sure if I should be posting this here but since ReClock is an integral part of the setup for some people, figured I'd put it here.

MPC-HC + madVR + ReClock + SVP. This is my setup.

Everything runs fine and I've had no issues with any sort of hiccups from all the components except for ReClock.

I apparently need it because without it I get the dreaded "1 frame drop/repeat every xx.xx seconds" in madVR's OSD.

The problem seems to be with ReClock's ability to detect a video stream and with my testing, it seems to be specific(?). Anything that is interlaced seems to be detectable otherwise it just sticks with "No video stream found".

When it does detect a stream, it turns green if the frame rate has been found. If it detects a stream but is unable to find the frame rate, it will turn yellow however it would still be serving its purpose.

I mean it is detecting the frame rate in general when it says
"Frame rate is unknown (estimated at xx.xxx fps). Media played at original speed"
under "Media adaptation, yet it is unable to detect a video stream.

Is there a workaround for this?

It is really bothersome to have to manually input a frame rate in ReClock's settings when a video stream is not detected.

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Re: ReClock Problems

smashq8
What display are you using? I interested in its refreshrate.

Workaround. Start playing video with disabled SVP, wait for ReClock green (yellow) icon, then enable SVP.

3 Reply by smashq8 (edited by smashq8 04-09-2016 12:40:23)

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Re: ReClock Problems

I'm projecting my PC on a TV. Specifically a LG B6 OLED TV. 4k@60hz.

I've tried delaying SVP through "All Settings" -> "start_delay". I've tried from 7000-20000 milliseconds but ReClock insists that there is no video stream.

SVP itself does a fantastic job at interpolating and I have no issues with it at all. The only obstacle that's preventing me from enjoying this 60fps experience is ReClock at this point.

EDIT:
When I switch from "Do frame rate conversion" as in going from 59.940fps -> 23.976fps in SVP, ReClock turns yellow. That's when I click on "Do frame rate conversion" again for it to go back to 59.940fps. So basically doing 59.940fps -> 23.976fps -> 59.940fps by manually clicking "Do frame rate conversion" in SVP's Control Panel is some sort of a workaround fix.

What a hassle. Anyway to implement this without having to do it manually?

  • Thanks: 1

Re: ReClock Problems

Instead of creating a new topic, I'll address another issue I'm having here.

I watch anime regularly and shows that are ripped from streams have weird frame rates. Sometimes they're normal @ 23.976 fps while others are just...inconsistent. For example, a frame rate of 23.810 is just weird. Unfortunately, it does not have a nice multiple at all.

While browsing through SVP's Utilities, I stumbled upon the parameter "fi_target" which turns out to be the frame rate multiplier. I thought, "great, now I can input a close enough multiple since it has 3 decimal points."

60/23.810 = 2.5199496010079798404031919361613. Yeah, doesn't exactly look pretty.
59.94/23.810 = 2.5174296514069718605627887442251. Again, an ugly site.

Since there were 3 decimal points, I rounded them off, so

60/23.810 ~= 2.520
59.94/23.810 ~= 2.517

I tried overriding the parameter with both values, but it seems to read up to one decimal point only.

Any way to bypass this limitation?

5 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 04-09-2016 19:55:51)

Re: ReClock Problems

LG's 2016 OLED TVs accept 59.94Hz as a refresh rate, so simply use MPC-HC's automatic resolution changer to select 59Hz for 23.976fps content; this should at least greatly minimize your issues and may even eliminate the need to use Reclock.

Alternatively you can try making a custom resolution (more info) of 47.952Hz which should be smoother and have less artifacts, but this is unsupported on many TVs.


----------------------------------------------------------------


smashq8 wrote:

For example, a frame rate of 23.810 is just weird. Unfortunately, it does not have a nice multiple at all.

It's possible that this is simply due to a variable frame rate, which ReClock cannot handle.

If ReClock is indeed still having problems detecting said video, then try to re-mux the video into an MKV via mkvtoolnix; for the actual muxing don't change any settings.

If that doesn't work, then try doing the same muxing process with mkvtoolnix but this time specify a frame rate for the video stream, like "24000/1001p".

6 Reply by brucethemoose (edited by brucethemoose 05-09-2016 01:03:24)

  • Thanks: 14

Re: ReClock Problems

mpv can handle variable refresh rates pretty well, right?

Re: ReClock Problems

brucethemoose wrote:

mpv can handle variable refresh rates pretty well, right?

I would assume so, but no GUI for the program settings makes it a deal-breaker for many.

  • Thanks: 1

Re: ReClock Problems

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:

LG's 2016 OLED TVs accept 59.94Hz as a refresh rate, so simply use MPC-HC's automatic resolution changer to select 59Hz for 23.976fps content; this should at least greatly minimize your issues and may even eliminate the need to use Reclock.

Alternatively you can try making a custom resolution (more info) of 47.952Hz which should be smoother and have less artifacts, but this is unsupported on many TVs.


----------------------------------------------------------------


smashq8 wrote:

For example, a frame rate of 23.810 is just weird. Unfortunately, it does not have a nice multiple at all.

It's possible that this is simply due to a variable frame rate, which ReClock cannot handle.

If ReClock is indeed still having problems detecting said video, then try to re-mux the video into an MKV via mkvtoolnix; for the actual muxing don't change any settings.

If that doesn't work, then try doing the same muxing process with mkvtoolnix but this time specify a frame rate for the video stream, like "24000/1001p".

I'd rather be viewing content @ near 60Hz rather than 48Hz. It just feels smoother. The TV seems to accept 48Hz upon testing it with Nvidia's Custom Resolution option though.

MPC-HC's resolution changer is kind of buggy. I added a new parameter which was

From (FPS)__________To (FPS)_____________Display Mode (Hz)
23.810________________59.940_____________[60] @ 3840x2160p

Problem is it doesn't seem to upscale to 3840x2160p according to madVR's OSD. It's only going up to 1920x1080p. SVP plays the files @ 59.525fps and ReClock somehow decides that 60fps is the optimal pick. Either ReClock needs a custom modification option which allows bizarre frame rates, or allow SVP to interpolate with extra decimal points in the "fi_target" parameter.

True, re-muxing is a valid option but that's just bothersome. If someone is following a weekly show, they're going to have to re-mux each episode every single time. Not to mention if said individual is following multiple shows with each weekday a different show is broadcasted.

An update on the video detection:
After restarting my PC and delaying SVP's startup by 8 seconds, my initial problem is no more.

For those who may encounter this issue, this is what I did

madVR
General settings -> tick "present a frame for every VSync"

ReClock
Advanced Settings -> VSYNC Correction -> tick the first two boxes

What do these combinations do? I'm not sure. Since I'm nearing towards perfect "settings" for my viewing experience, I'd rather not dabble any further.

9 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 05-09-2016 18:32:30)

Re: ReClock Problems

smashq8 wrote:

I'd rather be viewing content @ near 60Hz rather than 48Hz. It just feels smoother. The TV seems to accept 48Hz upon testing it with Nvidia's Custom Resolution option though.

Just because it accepts it doesn't mean it handles it correctly which may very well be why 60Hz "just feels smoother"; this is how my TV own behaves so I actually speed up 24fps content to 25fps via reclock (with pitch correction) because my TV does properly handle 50Hz.

For reference, 48Hz should be smoother but "feel slower" than 60Hz.



smashq8 wrote:

MPC-HC's resolution changer is kind of buggy. I added a new parameter which was

From (FPS)__________To (FPS)_____________Display Mode (Hz)
23.810________________59.940_____________[60] @ 3840x2160p

Problem is it doesn't seem to upscale to 3840x2160p according to madVR's OSD. It's only going up to 1920x1080p. SVP plays the files @ 59.525fps and ReClock somehow decides that 60fps is the optimal pick. Either ReClock needs a custom modification option which allows bizarre frame rates, or allow SVP to interpolate with extra decimal points in the "fi_target" parameter.

1. You seem to have been the second person now that has misunderstood how MPC-HC's automatic resolution changer work.  I'll have to look into explaining that in my "PSA" thread or something...  The "from" and "to" is specifying a frame rate range for detection, and it does not actually change the frame rate of the video itself, only your screen refresh rate.  What you should do is instead use 23.000 for "from", use 23.988 for "to", and set display mode to [59] @ 3840x2160p

2. Make sure madVR's own resolution changer isn't getting in the way.  Unless you want your TV to do any or all upscaling, it's usually better to use MPC-HC's.

3. Reclock choosing 60fps is correct behavior as that is what you set your display refresh rate to.



smashq8 wrote:

madVR
General settings -> tick "present a frame for every VSync"

ReClock
Advanced Settings -> VSYNC Correction -> tick the first two boxes

What do these combinations do? I'm not sure. Since I'm nearing towards perfect "settings" for my viewing experience, I'd rather not dabble any further.

I personally have no clue what they do to be honest.

  • Thanks: 1

Re: ReClock Problems

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:

Just because it accepts it doesn't mean it handles it correctly which may very well be why 60Hz "just feels smoother"; this is how my TV own behaves so I actually speed up 24fps content to 25fps via reclock (with pitch correction) because my TV does properly handle 50Hz.

For reference, 48Hz should be smoother but "feel slower" than 60Hz.

And that's exactly why I'm opting for 60Hz.

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:

1. You seem to have been the second person now that has misunderstood how MPC-HC's automatic resolution changer work.  I'll have to look into explaining that in my "PSA" thread or something...  The "from" and "to" is specifying a frame rate range for detection, and it does not actually change the frame rate of the video itself, only your screen refresh rate.  What you should do is instead use 23.000 for "from", use 23.988 for "to", and set display mode to [59] @ 3840x2160p

https://s14.postimg.org/wbgr3tnj1/sample.png

Yep, seemed to have been a misunderstanding on my end. It did upscale and play @ 59Hz. I've approached this specific file (attached image) in two ways:

1.) With ReClock active -> frame drops according to madVR's OSD are in the days range however, the audio gets out of sync with this file because ReClock is assuming it's playing @ 60fps while it is being interpolated @ 59.525fps according to SVP.
2.) With ReClock inactive -> Audio gets out of sync and there are frame repeats/drops (refer to attached image)

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:

2. Make sure madVR's own resolution changer isn't getting in the way.  Unless you want your TV to do any or all upscaling, it's usually better to use MPC-HC's.

I have not specified any display modes in madVR's settings. In fact, the entire option is disabled.

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:

3. Reclock choosing 60fps is correct behavior as that is what you set your display refresh rate to.

Well that's unfortunate. I'd rather not compromise. Either ReClock adds a custom refresh rate option (kind of an automatic "if x then do y" sort of thing), or SVP allows us the ability to customize the interpolation up to 3+ decimal points.

As of right now, I see no possible solution to this problem.

  • Thanks: 1

Re: ReClock Problems

Well this is just great.

Every file @ 23.810fps is playing out of sync regardless of what I try to do.

The audio is always ahead of the video.

I tried the following:

1.) Disable ReClock and allow the TV to do the audio rendering, playing the files @ 59.525fps.
2.) Repeated the first step but tried both madVR's and MPC-HC's internal display mode @ 2160p59.
3.) Disabled SVP temporarily and tried both madVR's and MPC-HC's internal display mode @ 2160p23.
4.) Repeated step 3 but enabled ReClock.

And I'm STILL getting out of sync audio. This is really frustrating. The only way to play them with perfect A/V sync is with VLC, which I'd rather not use since the quality degradation of the upscaled video is quite obvious.

Anyone find a solution? As it currently stands I can no longer watch videos encoded at stupid frame rates with MPC-HC + madVR, let alone MPC-HC + madVR + SVP.

Re: ReClock Problems

Just to clarify, if MPC-HC by itself (not using MadVr, ReClock, nor SVP), does the audio still get out of sync?

  • Thanks: 2

Re: ReClock Problems

Just made a quick throwaway account for this.

I use ReClock with MPC-HC and SVP, it's rather simple to setup so you don't get framed drops.

The reason why ReClock has issues with the videos is because it's incapable of figuring out the frame rate of the videos when SVP is activated, so in ReClock's Video Settings, set the Assumed frame rate when not found to 29.970 or 30 FPS if you'd like (I have it at 29.970).

And well... ta-da? You'll never get frame drops again. The reason we do this is because we use SVP to interpolate the frames to 60 FPS right? Well in anime it doesn't get perfectly to 60, typically to 59.94, which just so happens to be 29.970 if cut in half, which means no problems!

To test this out, when you start an anime or any 23.94 ~ video, bring up the ReClock task icon thingy and you'll see the Media adaption saying NTSC adaption: media speed changed to 30.000 fps. Audio resampled to some hz.

If you change the video stream (first box in the Media infos section) to 60 fps, you'll notice that it's just NTSC 2x adaptation and your audio probably won't get resampled or adjusted in anyway, but at 29.97/30 FPS, there is a slight modification.

Anyhow, all I know is this setup works and you don't have to tinker with ReClock every time you watch a new video with SVP and I've never had frame drops and my frame repeat is typically ranging 1 frame repeat every 2-13 hours or beyond.

  • Thanks: 1

Re: ReClock Problems

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:

Just to clarify, if MPC-HC by itself (not using MadVr, ReClock, nor SVP), does the audio still get out of sync?

Yes. Here's a screenshot of the filters being used and the settings I chose for "Output". Do keep in mind that SVP is disabled.

https://s12.postimg.org/mvj70l1bt/image.png

https://s9.postimg.org/9v5p9z0bv/image.png

icedtea676 wrote:

Just made a quick throwaway account for this.
I use ReClock with MPC-HC and SVP, it's rather simple to setup so you don't get framed drops.
The reason why ReClock has issues with the videos is because it's incapable of figuring out the frame rate of the videos when SVP is activated, so in ReClock's Video Settings, set the Assumed frame rate when not found to 29.970 or 30 FPS if you'd like (I have it at 29.970).
And well... ta-da? You'll never get frame drops again. The reason we do this is because we use SVP to interpolate the frames to 60 FPS right? Well in anime it doesn't get perfectly to 60, typically to 59.94, which just so happens to be 29.970 if cut in half, which means no problems!
To test this out, when you start an anime or any 23.94 ~ video, bring up the ReClock task icon thingy and you'll see the Media adaption saying NTSC adaption: media speed changed to 30.000 fps. Audio resampled to some hz.
If you change the video stream (first box in the Media infos section) to 60 fps, you'll notice that it's just NTSC 2x adaptation and your audio probably won't get resampled or adjusted in anyway, but at 29.97/30 FPS, there is a slight modification.
Anyhow, all I know is this setup works and you don't have to tinker with ReClock every time you watch a new video with SVP and I've never had frame drops and my frame repeat is typically ranging 1 frame repeat every 2-13 hours or beyond.

True, this method works for actual recognizable frame rates like 23.976/24/25/29.970/30 but when you have something absurd like 23.810, syncing becomes an issue.

  • Thanks: 2

Re: ReClock Problems

Eh? That method works all the time regardless of anything?

The second you use SVP, ReClock can't find the FPS value of the video.

What we do is we tell ReClock that if the FPS can't be found, the video will be at 59.94 FPS, or because ReClock doesn't allow that value, we simply use the half version, 29.97.

SVP will interpolate that 23.810 video to as close to 60 fps, odds are, SVP won't try and do something ridiculous and will simply do the standard 5:2 interpolation making the video run at 59.525.

That's not so far off from the video framerate. You shouldn't really have issues with syncing at that point and you won't be getting frame repeats either.

  • Thanks: 1

Re: ReClock Problems

icedtea676 wrote:

Eh? That method works all the time regardless of anything?

The second you use SVP, ReClock can't find the FPS value of the video.

What we do is we tell ReClock that if the FPS can't be found, the video will be at 59.94 FPS, or because ReClock doesn't allow that value, we simply use the half version, 29.97.

SVP will interpolate that 23.810 video to as close to 60 fps, odds are, SVP won't try and do something ridiculous and will simply do the standard 5:2 interpolation making the video run at 59.525.

That's not so far off from the video framerate. You shouldn't really have issues with syncing at that point and you won't be getting frame repeats either.

https://s9.postimg.org/jdr1krifv/image.png

For the record, I also tried "x2.5" besides the "To screen" option in SVP.

60.441fps and 59.525fps respectively. SVP is interpolating with 5:2 @ 59.525fps, but apparently nothing can keep up with the audio in MPC. It is always out of sync with videos playing @ 23.810fps.

17 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 16-09-2016 07:02:36)

Re: ReClock Problems

Absolutely crazy idea (not really) - try a completely separate copy of MPC-HC:
http://portableapps.com/apps/music_vide … c-portable

Set it up to use SVP via these instructions:
http://svp-team.com/wiki/SVP:MPC-HC

Try not to change any other settings in MPC-HC.


BEWARE: This specific version of MPC-HC does not work with the program "livestreamer".  If you do not use "livestreamer" or don't even know what it is, you'll be fine.

  • Thanks: 1

Re: ReClock Problems

Seems to have semi-fixed the issue.

The A/V is finally in sync after enabling LAV's DXVA2 copy-back. CUVID is out of the question. Just before SVP activates, the video frame freezes but the audio continues to progress with CUVID enabled.

All this time I was using ffdshow to do the decoding but since it's limited to QuickSync without alternate hardware acceleration options, I had to stick with LAV.

That's fine and all, but now madVR's OSD tells me that there is "1 frame repeat every 6.00 seconds". So we're back to the first post.

Re: ReClock Problems

Are you able to make a custom resolution with a refresh rate that is an exact multiple of 23.81fps and set up MPC-HC's automatic resolution changer to switch to it accordingly?

20 Reply by smashq8 (edited by smashq8 19-09-2016 05:06:55)

  • Thanks: 1

Re: ReClock Problems

23.81*2.1 ~= 50fps

I changed my refresh rate to 50Hz, but madVR's OSD tells me that the display is at ~49.99Hz while the composition is in fact 50Hz.

I tried changing "fi_target" to 2.1 and 50.000, but SVP gives me a reading of ~50.266fps. With the display being ~49.99Hz and SVP interpolating @ ~50.266fps, I'm bound to get frame drops.

I don't even know if there's an exact multiplier of 23.810. The closest I got to exactness while being bounded to 1 decimal point with multiplication was 50 (or 23.810*2.1 = 50.001).

EDIT: I tried 49.700 in the "fi_target" parameter. It ran at 50.001fps but I was still getting frame drops at ~49.99Hz (or with a 50Hz refresh rate set in NVIDIA's Control Panel).

Re: ReClock Problems

If you use CRU then you can specify the refresh rate up to 3 decimal points:
http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Threa … tility-CRU

  • Thanks: 1

Re: ReClock Problems

Tried CRU on two TVs I own including the current one. It always breaks the display even if I specify a refresh rate that is lower than the TV's native refresh rate.

I've even followed an extremely thorough guide at another site which I can't seem to remember, however the display continued to crash.

Don't know if this helps, but my GPU is a 1070 with the latest driver 372.70.

23 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 19-09-2016 18:55:28)

Re: ReClock Problems

Are you using the extensions block?  It's pretty much necessary on Nvidia GPUs.

Also you may have difficulties on TVs as many do not like custom refresh rates.

  • Thanks: 2

Re: ReClock Problems

Could I request a sample of the video file, just to see how it works on my end?

  • Thanks: 1

Re: ReClock Problems

Literally anything new coming out of HorribleSubs.

http://horriblesubs.info/