276

(23 replies, posted in Using SVP)

48, that's obvious because 24*2=48 and not 45.
BD movies are  23.976 fps, so almost 24.

277

(36 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Thanks.
Why don't you use mpv, especially now that mpv can finally render in HDR mode?

278

(23 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Sometimes one enthusiast who does something mainly for himself can do more than money.
Especially with PC computing power, which the TV sets will not have due to cost savings. Motion interpolation is not a priority for TV manufacturers, but only an addition.

Do you think you can make someting better in the future with NVIDIA Optical Flow SDK? Do you see any potential in this? Of course I know that it's implemented in SVP, I'm just asking if there's more potential for SVP with NVIDIA Optical Flow to deliver better quality results than without it. I know there is a performance benefit for weak CPUs, but is there also a potential for quality improvement?

279

(33 replies, posted in Using SVP)

kathampy wrote:

I'm running quad-channel 4 x 8 GB 4000 MHz C17 so memory bandwidth is not a problem. The CPU usage stays the same as 8-bit at around 14%, but 10-bit stutters severely.

On which monitor/TV do you watch 4K/10-bit HDR movies and do you use x2 (48Hz), 60Hz, x3 (72Hz) or maybe x5 (120Hz) interpolation?

280

(33 replies, posted in Using SVP)

snow8161 wrote:

I found that memory frequency also very important on 4k 10bit。
with 2133mhz svp index only 0.8 with a lot drop frame, not smooth.
with 2400 mhz smooth on nvdec-copy decoder.
with 3000 mhz smooth on d3d11-copy decoder

mpv player,6950x cpu,1660 ti gpu,16g ram


On which monitor/TV do you watch 4K/10-bit HDR movies and do you use x2 (48Hz), 60Hz, x3 (72Hz) or maybe x5 (120Hz) interpolation?

281

(23 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Blackfyre wrote:

Some very high end TV's and higher-midrange TV's too can do motion interpolation while keeping the artifacts to a minimum, they have built in chips dedicated to doing it, and teams of engineers and software programs dedicated to perfecting it year after year.

SVP is the cheaper method available for those who don't have those expensive TV's.

Having said that artifacts are a lot less when I am watching 4K content on a 4K TV.


Are you saying that 4K TV can have better interpolation than SVP? I don't think they have more computing power than your PC.

I can't make a comparison, but I think SVP with its settings should be more capable. This is one of the advantages of SVP over DimitriRender for example.

282

(36 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Thank you Chainik!

I don't have any Nvidia GPU yet, but as far as I know G-Sync should automatically adjust the monitor to the frequency received from the GPU:

23,976x5=119,88 Hz
25x5=125Hz

so I won't have to do it manually.

283

(36 replies, posted in Using SVP)

I know that the thread is quite long and my questions may be lost in the crowd of posts. So I will repeat them again, because I still haven't received answers:

1. How many CPU cores and threads can SVP with mpv support in parallel?

This is a question for SVP developer in the part about the possibilities of the software itself and its internal limitations. As well as from a practical point of view, for all who use SVP with mpv on HEDT CPUs.

2. On which monitor/TV do you watch 4K/10-bit HDR movies and do you use x2 (48Hz), 60Hz, x3 (72Hz) or maybe x5 (120Hz) interpolation?

This is a question addressed to Chainik as a request to expand on the following statement:

Chainik wrote:

I know that 4K/10-bit in mpv works on mine Ryzen 1700 @3500 MHz at ~2800 memory speed. Not with the highest settings though, but I don't thing the "highest" (i.e. "half-pixel mode") is even needed for 4K.


3. Will G-Sync will work with the newest version of SVP, which allows to output HDR from mpv with the settings Blackfyre writes about:

Blackfyre wrote:

Removed "on top" because full-screen exclusive mode does not work with DX11 (which is a shame), unlike Vulkan.


This is a question for all who have G-Sync or G-Sync Compatible variable refresh rate monitors and Nvidia GPU.


Of course I would like to encourage everyone who has experience in smooth playback of 4K 10bit HDR movies on a 4K 144Hz or use quad-channel memory to say something about the topics described in this thread. I would be very grateful to hear your opinion.

I also encourage to discuss anyone who, like me, intends to acquire the 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen Threadripper in the future and is looking for information to help him decide whether to choose a CPU with quad-channel memory (24 and 32 cores) or octa-channel memory (probably 48 and 64 cores).

For me, this decision is all the more important because I'm going to build a fanless HTPC, so I have to use some kind of underclocking and undervolting. So it won't be a HTPC with full power of 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen Threadripper and 280 W TDP (or 350W TDP, which will probably feature 64 core Threadripper).

284

(36 replies, posted in Using SVP)

I know that glare or anti-glare screen is a matter of individual preference, but I'm looking for a monitor that at least will provide light diffusion at this level:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZjSHegW_nQ

and not like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcuNnbHKueg

although I know that the second one would have been chosen by the majority of this forum users without hesitation.


My new monitor will be used in strong daylight and will not only be used for watching movies, so it will always have to be a compromise.

285

(36 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Blackfyre wrote:

Removed "on top" because full-screen exclusive mode does not work with DX11 (which is a shame), unlike Vulkan.

I hope it will work with G-Sync or G-Sync Compatible variable refresh rate monitors? Could anyone please confirm that this will work?

286

(36 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Blackfyre wrote:

But don't worry in your case if you get one of those listed TV's above that are high-end TV's. You will notice the difference. My TV's maximum brightness is 400 Nits, so even when HDR works the difference wouldn't be as noticeable. The panel itself is decent, but nowhere near the TV's you listed above.


HDR should always look better when we have a range of 1000 nits than 400 nits on a monitor or TV. In your case, the quality of the new mpv version with HDR output should be at least the same as the previous one with vulkan, if not better. However, this only proves how well you had worked out the tone-mapping setting and those shaders. You've probably pulled out everything you can from your TV.

However, the 7 models that I gave in the first post are not TV but ordinary PC monitors. Well maybe not quite ordinary... It's hard to believe what progress has been made in the field of monitors: we finally have a large selection of 4K monitors accepting 120Hz/144Hz signal from a computer and as big as TV.

That's why I listed all the models I know, because they're all perfect for watching movies with PC/HTPC with SVP. What makes them different from typical TV is that they should have a DP port and be G-Sync compatible.

Additionally for me an important aspect that is in favor of a large format monitor instead of TV is the fact that they have a flicker-free backlight and some of them also have a matte (anti-glare) screen.

For me the ideal monitor is:

1. 4K
2. 16:9
3. accepting 4K 144Hz or 4K 120Hz signal
4. more than 40 inches
5. flat (non-curved)
6. with DP 1.4 port
7. G-Sync or G-Sync Compatible
8. HDR 1000
9. with flicker-free backlight
10. with matte (anti-glare) screen

OK, almost perfect, because the perfect one would be based on micro-leds.
In any case, all these requirements are not met by any TV.
However, a monitor with such requirements can be found.

287

(36 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Blackfyre wrote:

It should work now with MPV yes, as discussed above.

So from my configuration, the only thing that needs to be changed is:

gpu-api=vulkan
gpu-context=winvk

TO:

gpu-api=d3d11
gpu-context=auto


Blackfyre wrote:

But with the mid-range TV's like mine, I still prefer vulkan.

I was hoping that it would not only work for you, but also that it would work better than vulkan, due to true HDR processing and output. That's why the settings are changed - to make it better :-)

288

(36 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Blackfyre wrote:

If you right click SVP the maximum threads in the options is 21, however if you go on additional options, then click ALL Settings. You can scroll down and change "threads" to however many you want manually. But I am not sure if there is an actual limit on the back-end of operations. Wait for Chainik to answer that question.

Also possible that it hasn't been tested beyond a certain amount of threads, so the answer is unknown. For example if the maximum they have tested is on a 24 core (48 thread) processor and it works fine and utilises all, but if you go beyond that, it's unknown territory and it should theoretically work, but who knows? Maybe not. I am just guessing here. The option however to change thread count to any number you want is available in All Settings.


Thanks for the settings information, I'm sure it'll come in handy.

Yes, these two bolded are the two things that interest me the most. The first one can only be answered by Chainik. On the second one, maybe there are also SVP users who are currently using HEDT CPUs, hence my thread.

289

(36 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Blackfyre wrote:

I will do more testing with DX11

Please, keep sharing your experience on this forum. I hope you will finally find the settings with DX11 and HDR output that will satisfy your needs.

Unfortunately my current PC doesn't allow me to smoothly play 1080p movies even without SVP, so I don't have a chance to test the settings you're giving.

From what I read here, mpv is currently the only solution to get the most out of 4K 10bit HDR movies on 4K 144Hz monitors using SVP. Therefore, I will keep an eye on your settings and when I'm ready with my planned HTPC, these settings will be the base for my mpv configuration. Thanks for helping others on this forum and sharing your experiences.

290

(36 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Chainik wrote:

I know that 4K/10-bit in mpv works on mine Ryzen 1700 @3500 MHz at ~2800 memory speed. Not with the highest settings though, but I don't thing the "highest" (i.e. "half-pixel mode") is even needed for 4K.

Thanks, but the most important thing is missing here: on which monitor/TV do you watch 4K/10-bit HDR movies and do you use x2 (48Hz), 60Hz, x3 (72Hz) or maybe x5 (120Hz) interpolation?

I also still haven't received any answer to my question: how many CPU threads can SVP with mpv support in parallel?

291

(36 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Chainik wrote:

1. it only works well with a software decoder (and decoding of 4K HEVC is rather demanding)
2. VLC's filter chain is single-threaded so the overall performance is somehow limited by a single-threaded CPU performance. BTW this was also the case for mpv before the last year (single-threaded output frames copying).

So mpv is much better in terms of performance and flexibility.

Thank you! Now everything is clear to me about VLC. With my planned HTPC configuration it turns out that only mpv will be reasonable solution. At least until VLC developers introduce multithreading.

292

(36 replies, posted in Using SVP)

James D wrote:

>>1. VLC is limited to 3x FRC rate, so ~72 fps is the max

So, technically 144Hz monitor could be used OK but 120Hz are not that preferable.

Thanks. I really like VLC, because unlike mpv it can properly display menus from DVD and BR. However, I am a little concerned about the quote from this thread: https://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopi … 98&p=5


Chainik wrote:

Another update - rev.170 - makes VLC+SVP finally usable wink

Still 4K performance is not so good as it could be...

Can somebody tell me what the problem is after the last update of VLC?

293

(36 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Blackfyre wrote:

I will backup my configuration and give it a test later. Damn, vulkan had the best performance for me. Hopefully DX11 works well too now, it has been a long time since I have tried it.

Blackfyre, your MPV configuration is famous in this forum and seems to be the gold standard to which all others are compared: https://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopi … 95&p=2
I would be very grateful if you could share your test results on this thread.

294

(36 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Reason 2

After reading the following 2 posts from this thread: https://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopi … 95&p=2 I think that quad-channel memory is the minimum for the most demanding situations, and the last quote may even indicate that octa-channel memory could also be useful:

snow8161 wrote:

I found that memory frequency also very important on 4k 10bit。
with 2133mhz svp index only 0.8 with a lot drop frame, not smooth.
with 2400 mhz smooth on nvdec-copy decoder.
with 3000 mhz smooth on d3d11-copy decoder

mpv player,6950x cpu,1660 ti gpu,16g ram


kathampy wrote:

I'm running quad-channel 4 x 8 GB 4000 MHz C17 so memory bandwidth is not a problem. The CPU usage stays the same as 8-bit at around 14%, but 10-bit stutters severely.

Chainik, could you comment on the above quotes and give some information as SVP developer about the impact that the number of channels and memory speed can have on smooth playback (SVP) of 4K 10bit HDR movies on a 4K 144Hz monitor? Also could you write if SVP has any limitations as to the number of CPU threads it can support in parallel, please?

295

(36 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Chainik wrote:

> TR 3970X and TR 3960X.

I believe it's like 2-3 times overkill. 12-core 3900x is more than enough, even 3700x is quite good I suppose.

More important you just can't play HDR content in HDR mode at 120 Hz, because:
1. VLC is limited to 3x FRC rate, so ~72 fps is the max
2. mpv currently can't render in HDR mode so it'll always do 8-bit tone mapping
3. DirectShow players will always loose both precision and dynamic HDR data because of ffdshow

===
UPDATE: it turns out that mpv CAN finally render in HDR mode after October 30 commit big_smile
So it's now the best choice for HDR content playback.


Chainik, thanks for your answer.

It's great news that mpv CAN finally render in HDR mode! That's another reason for me that now is the right time to build a new HTPC to SVP!

Yes, a 12-core 3900x may indeed be enough with its capabilities on a typical PC. So, I will explain 2 main reasons why I decided to build a new HTPC based on Ryzen Threadripper.

Reason 1

I'm going to build the strongest possible fanless HTPC. With such cooling the most important thing is the ratio of CPU power to heat dissipated. In such a case it is best to buy a stronger processor and subject it to underclocking and undervolting than a weaker one, which will be overclocked. This gives a higher efficiency. Of course, provided that the software can use multiple CPU cores and SVP is such a software. The question is, how many cores and threads can be used?

Additionally, Ryzen Threadripper has chiplets far apart from each other and a huge heat dissipation surface in comparison to Ryzen 9. That is why in my construction the choice was made by Ryzen Threadripper.

The fanless case I'm going to use for my HTPC has the ability to dissipate 250W of heat from CPU and GPU combined. Using Ryzen Threadripper I think I will be able to dissipate 300-350W of heat from CPU and GPU combined. Of course I'll still have to use some kind of underclocking and undervolting.

Therefore I agree that the TR 3970X and TR 3960X with full capabilities and 280W TDP can be overkill, but I probably won't even be able to use the full base clock capabilities. However, thanks to this my HTPC will be completely quiet and future-proof.

296

(36 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Today we have the premiere of 2 processors:
TR 3970X and TR 3960X.

The stronger of them: TR 3970X has 32 cores, 64 threads and supports quad-channel memory.

I have a few questions:

1) Can SVP fully utilize 64 threads from the above processor?

2) Will SVP be able to use 128 threads of an even stronger processor, which will appear in 2020?

3) Will the octa-channel memory of an even stronger processor that will appear in 2020 be useful for SVP?


My goal is smooth playback of 4K 10bit HDR movies on a 4K 144Hz monitor in the best quality. Practically all movies come out today in 4K 10bit HDR and this should be considered a standard.

This year there are also a lot of monitors above 40 inches capable of accepting 4K 144Hz or 4K 120Hz signal.
Currently in Europe there are available the following models of monitors (4K, 16:9, 120Hz+, 40"+):

ASUS ROG Swift PG65UQ, 64.5"
HP Omen X Emperium 65, 64.5"
Dell Alienware AW5520QF, 54.6"
ASUS ROG Strix XG438Q, 43"

What we are waiting for is...

Philips Momentum 558M1RY, 54.6"
Acer Predator CG437KP, 43"
ASUS ROG Strix XG43UQ, 43"


Does anyone have any experience with 4K 10 Bit HDR movies smoothed by SVP to 120Hz or 144Hz on a 4K monitor or want to have like me?