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RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:Under high GPU load, 565.90 causing stutters, but was buttery smooth all the time with average loads, 590.26 have no stutters under high load at all!
Noticed how quick my monitor VRR switches and holds, not happens with 566+ drivers!
That maybe because it's using "smooth motion generation". I got a hacked version of that technology kind of working with my 40 series card, but it will be great to see it in action properly working. Thanks!
It doesnt, disabled!
UPD: Some people said that dev driver 590.10 also better with competitive games, the quickest driver by latency, need to test with same parameters!
It's possible to enable it globally. Do you have a link because I'm struggling to find one.
Upd: I think I found it thanks.
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:The dev driver 590.26 breaks framepacing in games now, MPV looks insane, even better than 565.90 legacy now! Unstable, one game already crashed twice!
"MPV looks insane" Explain?
Under high GPU load, 565.90 causing stutters, but was buttery smooth all the time with average loads, 590.26 have no stutters under high load at all!
Noticed how quick my monitor VRR switches and holds, not happens with 566+ drivers!
That maybe because it's using "smooth motion generation". I got a hacked version of that technology kind of working with my 40 series card, but it will be great to see it in action properly working. Thanks!
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:No, 581.42 is the same as 29, different framepacing in different applications, which was the same for all applications for legacy 565.90 driver, 2 drivers before NVIDIA App transformation!
UPD: I will try dev drivers, 590.26 for test!
Strange because 566.36 always worked well for me. 577.00 was maybe even better and the latest official Nvidia release is as good as the others. So as I said it will be a local setup issue. Doesn't mean that "you" are doing anything wrong. It just means that there's something in your setup that is the real cause. Could be a card limitation or needing a "clean install" not an express install. Could be Windows 10/11 settings. For me it was kind of all of the above plus more because I'm using VR.
The dev driver 590.26 breaks framepacing in games now, MPV looks insane, even better than 565.90 legacy now! Unstable, one game already crashed twice!
"MPV looks insane" Explain?
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:But how different drivers breaks framepacing in different applications? I mean, for me 581.29 driver is most stable, in games, but breaks youtube, any video player, MPV, etc!
Thats why I asked for different GPU people test my issue!
That's why I said "most driver issues are game specific". But I am using 581.42 with no issues so not sure what is happening there unless .29 has specific issues. I'm watching full 4k (3840x2160) 3D movies and running a remote desktop at the same time with my GPU regularly dipping well below 100% and no stutters so far.
No, 581.42 is the same as 29, different framepacing in different applications, which was the same for all applications for legacy 565.90 driver, 2 drivers before NVIDIA App transformation!
UPD: I will try dev drivers, 590.26 for test!
Strange because 566.36 always worked well for me. 577.00 was maybe even better and the latest official Nvidia release is as good as the others. So as I said it will be a local setup issue. Doesn't mean that "you" are doing anything wrong. It just means that there's something in your setup that is the real cause. Could be a card limitation or needing a "clean install" not an express install. Could be Windows 10/11 settings. For me it was kind of all of the above plus more because I'm using VR. After my recent update I was still seeing the occasional stutter until I rebooted my router which also needs to be done semi regularly. But maybe using MPV interpolation is hiding much of the frame variance for me.
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:I need someone to test this with different or same GPU - my friends with almost identical PCs have same issues with different drivers, thats not local issue!
UPD: Thats VRR problem, simple FIX is running LSFG ontop of RIFE interpolation with same FPS gives very smooth behavior, which means the driver interferes VRR framepacing!
Told you lol. Most of the driver issues are either game specific or as you have found out, they are local setup issues. BTW I'm now using the latest 58x driver with no issues. So it looks like in my case it was mostly local setup issues.
But how different drivers breaks framepacing in different applications? I mean, for me 581.29 driver is most stable, in games, but breaks youtube, any video player, MPV, etc!
Thats why I asked for different GPU people test my issue!
That's why I said "most driver issues are game specific". But with the latest 581.42 drivers, I'm watching full 4k (3840x2160) 3D movies and running a remote desktop at the same time with my GPU regularly dipping well below 100% and no stutters so far. So not sure what is happening there unless .29 has specific issues.
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:Mega Question about NVIDIA drivers / media player VSync behaviors
Stutters/jerks through any players after 581.X driver updates
Who can CONFIRM that any driver after 565.90 provides same/better smoothness levels?
As 4070 user, tested a lot different drivers, only 565.90 works flawlessly with any models, except 4.10ths and 4.25+
MPV behavior: 565.90 driver works flawless and perfectly smooth at any multiplier, w/wo interpolation, 566.36+ any drivers provides jerks!
UPD: Always running 565.90 driver before September driver release, changing TRT libraries do nothing! Any NVIDIA tricks like Fast Sync and others doesnt work, looks like new driver just breaks framepacing windowed modes at all, exclusive fullscreen works bad!
If you are having issues with 566 and but are OK with 565 then that might be a local issue. 566.36 is probably the most well known stutter free driver across the Internet. I'm using a 570 driver and it's as least as good as 566.36 and I'm probably going to try later drivers now that I've sorted the stutter causing issues. I had local wifi and bluetooth issues. But I also recently found out that Windows 11 works differently to Windows 10 and "optimizing" it can make things worse. I caused much of the stuttering by turning off certain Windows CPU security features and hidden Nvidia features the GPU needs to work properly with Windows 11. Turning them back on helped to get rid of the stutters.
I need someone to test this with different or same GPU - my friends with almost identical PCs have same issues with different drivers, thats not local issue!
UPD: Thats VRR problem, simple FIX is running LSFG ontop of RIFE interpolation with same FPS gives very smooth behavior, which means the driver interferes VRR framepacing!
Told you lol. I reckon most driver issues are either game specific or as you have found out, they are local setup issues. BTW I'm now using the latest 58x driver with no issues. So it looks like in my case it was mostly local setup issues.
RickyAstle98 wrote:Mega Question about NVIDIA drivers / media player VSync behaviors
Stutters/jerks through any players after 581.X driver updates
Who can CONFIRM that any driver after 565.90 provides same/better smoothness levels?
As 4070 user, tested a lot different drivers, only 565.90 works flawlessly with any models, except 4.10ths and 4.25+
MPV behavior: 565.90 driver works flawless and perfectly smooth at any multiplier, w/wo interpolation, 566.36+ any drivers provides jerks!
UPD: Always running 565.90 driver before September driver release, changing TRT libraries do nothing! Any NVIDIA tricks like Fast Sync and others doesnt work, looks like new driver just breaks framepacing windowed modes at all, exclusive fullscreen works bad!
If you are having issues with 566 and but are OK with 565 then that might be a local issue. 566.36 is probably the most well known stutter free driver across the Internet. I'm using a 570 driver and it's as least as good as 566.36 and I'm probably going to try later drivers now that I've sorted the stutter causing issues. I had local wifi and bluetooth issues. But I also recently found out that Windows 11 works differently to Windows 10 and "optimizing" it can make things worse. I caused much of the stuttering by turning off certain Windows CPU security features and hidden Nvidia features the GPU needs to work properly with Windows 11. Turning them back on helped to get rid of the stutters.
Timbertoon wrote:I really appreciate this.
So I ran into issues and kind of gave up the other night out of frustration. I got jriver setup to passthrough the capture card to the screen. I tried jriver default processor, and tried connecting it to SVP using the post processing filter avisynth. BUT... every single time I tried to click properties, jriver would crash. I assume I should be able to click on the properties button inside jriver and have something pop up with avisynth? And any video I tried to play via capture card to svp, svp always showed no video playing. I did get svp to register a video was playing out of MPC HC, but it never got ANY changes in the displayed video / processor load beyond SVP recognizing a video was playing, showing a 1.0 ... something in the performance graph.
I feel like I have a wonderfully working madvr setup, albeit, extremely high GPU usage and the typical low framerate. I'm really frustrated I've been unable to make SVP function. I've tried reinstalling, etc.
Did you check the JRiver SVP manual page? https://www.svp-team.com/wiki/SVP:JRiver_Media_Center
Also depending on resolution and GPU, if you already have extremely high GPU usage then SVP will work best with standard the Automatic video profile and not anything more advance.
Timbertoon wrote:Fair warning, I know just enough to be dangerous. If any of my thoughts / ideas are wrong, let me know. I have no belief I understand this topic particularly well.
I have a projector in our media room, so I've been using a capture card, videoprocessor (a software application from videoprocessor.org), and madvr for hdr to sdr tonemapping. I've been really happy with the results and was curious if SVP could help smooth out the frame rate. I've seen references to... I think it was MPV video renderer maybe? I believe there is some criticism that madvr may use a ton of extra processor that either doesn't yield significantly better results or better methods now exist to achieve that tone mapping.
Essentially I'd like to know if I can use videoprocessor (which has a dropdown to select any directshow video renderer) and select... SVP maybe? And then is there a way to tie in something like MPV in place of madvr to get smooth frames combined with great tone mapping? I'd like to avoid having to change HDR (which I'm doing by mapping everything to sdr) and frame rate "bonks" on the projector as it takes 4 - 8 seconds to resync the HDMI signal. I also use the black bar detection to zoom video to my cinemascope screen.
Is there a way to do what I'm wanting to do? Because I use videoprocessor, I've installed the SVP application, but I don't know where to go from there. I don't see "SVP" in the video renderers, but I did notice... was it MPC Video Renderer show up? Which I believe was installed alongside SVP.
I apologize for these questions. I have madvr setup and working well. Just curious if there are some other options to maximize the viewing experience and potentially have buttery smooth frames for movies.
Thank you for your help!
I can't talk about your specific setup. But in general, MPV can do more picture pre and post processing than MadVR, better than MadVR, much more efficiently than MadVR. But if you are only interested in the HDR tone-mapping then MadVR should be fine and you can ignore my comments below.
Although there are MPV GUI front end options available, MPV is best configured using text based configuration files. Even with the GUI, more advanced MPV configuration requires some patience to gain the knowledge. My advice is to stick with the default MPV configuration that comes with SVP. It's not perfect but it works and is not filled with useless bloat.The other big issue related to my recommendation is that there are lots of MPV "meme configurations" on the Internet which include mostly useless or outdated commands and recommendations.
Insindro wrote:dawkinscm wrote:Rife v4.25 is the smoothest and has the least artifacts of any Rife model, but it still has major vertical and stripey line artifacts. Running SVP with IC at 6% reduces or removes these artifacts. 8% removes less but also causes less issues elsewhere. Setting IC below 10% uses the least GPU and maybe there's less false detections? @chainik I'm sure can correct me on this. However, when there is a false detection there's more stuttering, but this is reduced by blending frames. The final piece of the puzzle is to use your media player to interpolate the output from SVP if it has this feature. I watch 4K 3D SBS movies which is the most GPU intensive processing for SVP because of the resolution and also processing has to be performed twice, once for each half. The strange thing is that even though IC below 10% clearly uses less GPU, it still works better with a mild overclock of my 4080 so YMMV.
But for this to work you must have smooth motion using as your baseline. Make sure your Anti-Virus is not causing issues. Full Screen Exclusive mode is an old technology but it works best to make sure that nothing else interferes with the SVP->PC player process chain. For Nvidia make sure you are using one of the drivers well known to not cause stuttering like 566.36. If at the end of all this, you can run even run NVOF scene change detection smoothly then you are already most of the way there 
Thanks for the information! By any chance, have you updated your mpv config since the last time you posted it on this thread?
Yes. I don't remember what I sent because 7/8ths of my config is relevant only to my VR setup, calibration, configuration and personal preferences. But the relevant additional config which applies to anyone is this:
d3d11-exclusive-fs
video-sync=display-resample
interpolation
Rife v4.25 is the smoothest and has the least artifacts of any Rife model, but it still has major vertical and stripey line artifacts. Running SVP with IC at 6% reduces or removes these artifacts. 8% removes less but also causes less issues elsewhere. Setting IC below 10% uses the least GPU and maybe there's less false detections? @chainik I'm sure can correct me on this. However, when there is a false detection there's more stuttering, but this is reduced by blending frames. The final piece of the puzzle is to use your media player to interpolate the output from SVP if it has this feature. I watch 4K 3D SBS movies which is the most GPU intensive processing for SVP because of the resolution and also processing has to be performed twice, once for each half. The strange thing is that even though IC below 10% clearly uses less GPU, it still works better with a mild overclock of my 4080 so YMMV.
But for this to work you must have smooth motion using as your baseline. Make sure your Anti-Virus is not causing issues. Full Screen Exclusive mode is an old technology but it works best to make sure that nothing else interferes with the SVP->PC player process chain. For Nvidia make sure you are using one of the drivers well known to not cause stuttering like 566.36. If at the end of all this, you can run even run NVOF scene change detection smoothly then you are already most of the way there
The solution I wrote about work but occasionally causes stutters elsewhere. Removed until a more stable solution found.
Very strange. Rife is suddenly dropping dozens of packets so I loaded a backup of my system that worked perfectly for the past week or more and it's still doing the same thing. Same files, same movies, same config, everything is the same but now Rife is dropping packets.
OK Looks like it's fixed after reinstalling GPU drivers.
danialla wrote:dawkinscm wrote:Blackfyre wrote:Hi all, I've been gone for a while. There is a couple of SVP updates, and new MPV update with new changes, a couple of Windows Updates that added Dolby Vision too in the HDR section, etc
RTX 3090, 4K, 24 to 48FPS @ custom 48Hz
Still using RIFE 4.16 Lite (v2) for Frame Height > 1700
And using RIFE 4.25 (v2) for Frame Height < 1699
I am just wondering if anything stands out or outdated in my MPV config that I should look to upgrade/change? Fix?
Scrollable below:
ontop
fullscreen=yes
d3d11-exclusive-fs=yes
volume=100
volume-max=100
vo=gpu-next
gpu-api=d3d11
hwdec=auto-copy
hwdec-codecs=all
gpu-context=d3d11
fbo-format=rgba16hf
hdr-compute-peak=no
target-colorspace-hint=yes
tone-mapping=st2094-40
scale=ewa_lanczos
cscale=ewa_lanczos
dscale=ewa_lanczos
tscale=ewa_lanczos
osd-level=1
osd-bar-w=25
osd-color=0.6/0.6
osd-font-size=30
osd-font='Inter Tight Medium'
#sub-gray
sub-auto=fuzzy
#sub-gauss=0.9
slang=eng,en,und
sub-fix-timing=yes
sub-filter-sdh=yes
subs-with-matching-audio=no
demuxer-mkv-subtitle-preroll=yes
sub-font-size=42
sub-border-size=1
sub-font="Verdana Bold"
sub-color=0.6/0.6/0.6/0.6
sub-pos=100
sub-margin-y=3
sub-margin-x=100
glsl-shader="C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\mpv\Shaders\FSRCNNX_x2_8-0-4-1.glsl"
glsl-shader="C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\mpv\Shaders\KrigBilateral.glsl"
glsl-shader="C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\mpv\Shaders\SSimDownscaler.glsl"
There's a few commands that do nothing at all which means they don't currently do any harm and I'm not going to repeat myself The rest is just personal choice. The shaders are fine, but these days I only use them for edge cases, because when watching in VR on a very large screen at short distance exposes issues with external shaders that you won't see on a TV or even on a projector. Aliasing is the most obvious but depending on the source, other issues can and usually do arise.
is this works for anyoone? i don't want to take any risks!
There's nothing there that will do any damage. But most of this is probably not relevant for you and the shaders won't work unless you have downloaded them already. If you don't know what I'm talking about then for SVP on Windows just use the default config C:\Program Files (x86)\SVP 4\mpv64\mpv.conf. That is all you need to get going.
GodlessWanderer wrote:I have a setup that some of you may find interesting...
I USE VAPOURSYNTH AND AVISYNTH AT THE SAME TIME
Using an NVIDIA GTX 1650 Mobile (no tensors)
GTX 1650 Mobile doing the processing
AMD integrated graphics HDMI output for display
10x interpolation (23.976 → 239.26 FPS)
1728×720 through AMD HDMI
Only 45% GTX 1650 usage
This is a hybrid GPU setup - NVIDIA doing the heavy interpolation work while AMD handles the display output through HDMI
Smooth AV1 decode with hardware acceleration
Yes the Nvidia is "trying" to do all the work but mostly failing but I see you are doing 10x Interpolation. But using the AMD for output means that once the Nvidia has finished it has to pass the result over to the Integrated GPU via the CPU which is the slowest transport possible.
BTW I might be missing something here, but what makes you think you are using AVI and VAPOURSYNTH at the same time?
Blackfyre wrote:Hi all, I've been gone for a while. There is a couple of SVP updates, and new MPV update with new changes, a couple of Windows Updates that added Dolby Vision too in the HDR section, etc
RTX 3090, 4K, 24 to 48FPS @ custom 48Hz
Still using RIFE 4.16 Lite (v2) for Frame Height > 1700
And using RIFE 4.25 (v2) for Frame Height < 1699
I am just wondering if anything stands out or outdated in my MPV config that I should look to upgrade/change? Fix?
Scrollable below:
ontop
fullscreen=yes
d3d11-exclusive-fs=yes
volume=100
volume-max=100
vo=gpu-next
gpu-api=d3d11
hwdec=auto-copy
hwdec-codecs=all
gpu-context=d3d11
fbo-format=rgba16hf
hdr-compute-peak=no
target-colorspace-hint=yes
tone-mapping=st2094-40
scale=ewa_lanczos
cscale=ewa_lanczos
dscale=ewa_lanczos
tscale=ewa_lanczos
osd-level=1
osd-bar-w=25
osd-color=0.6/0.6
osd-font-size=30
osd-font='Inter Tight Medium'
#sub-gray
sub-auto=fuzzy
#sub-gauss=0.9
slang=eng,en,und
sub-fix-timing=yes
sub-filter-sdh=yes
subs-with-matching-audio=no
demuxer-mkv-subtitle-preroll=yes
sub-font-size=42
sub-border-size=1
sub-font="Verdana Bold"
sub-color=0.6/0.6/0.6/0.6
sub-pos=100
sub-margin-y=3
sub-margin-x=100
glsl-shader="C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\mpv\Shaders\FSRCNNX_x2_8-0-4-1.glsl"
glsl-shader="C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\mpv\Shaders\KrigBilateral.glsl"
glsl-shader="C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\mpv\Shaders\SSimDownscaler.glsl"
There's a few commands that do nothing at all which means they don't currently do any harm and I'm not going to repeat myself The rest is just personal choice. The shaders are fine, but these days I only use them for edge cases, because when watching in VR on a very large screen at short distance exposes issues with external shaders that you won't see on a TV or even on a projector. Aliasing is the most obvious but depending on the source, other issues can and usually do arise.
The heavy models should have been the best, but they turned out to be worse than the "lite" models. v26 was supposed to be better than v25 but it isn't. He did try but guess he got as far as he could.
scb wrote:Is RIFE v4.26v2 pretty much peak RIFE capability?
I know the author moved on to other things but do we have the best thing now anyway?
Perhaps we just need GPU power to catch up
4.25.
Not the best. But it's the best we have.
GPU power won't solve artifacts. Better models will.
themrcul wrote:Thank you Chainik, I'll investigate that asap.
I got Assumefps working. If you read the manual you will find the correct syntax and missing commands that need to be changed. All it does is speed up the playback so I'm not sure what help that is for you. I tested ConvertFPS with a partial encode of Gemini Man and it looks like that works with the requisite additional changes so I'm trying it out on a full encode
I did a bit more reading and this is what I found:
ConvertFPS doesn't drop or insert frames. It instead either blends multiple frames into one (to decrease fps) or "switches" one frame into two by literally breaking it into parts. Blend obviously results in motion blurring, and switch introduces wobble during pans.
I assume this is why the author of BD3D2MK3D doesn't recommend doing it. But if there isn't too much motion blur then maybe Rife can sort out the pan wobbles which is what it does anyway.
Final update: Maybe if I watch the whole movie without fast forwarding or rewinding it will play all the way through. But otherwise it kind of works then the video stops. But that might be to do with my configuration.
I'm going to try AssumeFPS(120) and see what happens with encoding. I might just try AssumeFPS(60) after that.
Wrong syntax! Also Wrong command.
Xenocyde wrote:dawkinscm wrote:Is anyone else experiencing multiple crashes with the last few versions of SVP? It just disappears from my Windows system tray and when I look in Task Manager, the process is no longer there.
Think I updated to latest version a few days ago IIRC. No problems here.
It's been crashing the last couple of versions for me. If no one else is experiencing this then maybe it doesn't like something on my system.
Is anyone else experiencing multiple crashes with the last few versions of SVP? It just disappears from my Windows system tray and when I look in Task Manager, the process is no longer there.
Xenocyde wrote:dawkinscm wrote:Xenocyde wrote:Can Smooth Motion be used with RIFE or SVP somehow? It just got officially enabled for RTX 4000 GPUs in addition to the initial RTX 5000 models.
I have smooth motion on globally but I can't get my media player or anything to recognize it. However this reminded me to turn on smooth motion option in mpv and the even when I'm using remote desktop as well as the TV, the micro-stutters are reduced or gone. I used this setting before, but I probably over-complicated it by using multiple options when I should have just left it at default. So if this remains the case then I don't need RTX smooth motion anyway
Where is the smooth motion option in MPV? Does it need to be added to the config file?
Yes add the command "video-sync=display-resample" to your config.
This command by itself is not software interpolation and different command options can be used to be more like it. But when combined with SVP I had an instant reduction of micro-stutters, frame lagging and an overall improvement in smoothness, even with my GPU threads turned down to 1. YMMV.
Xenocyde wrote:Can Smooth Motion be used with RIFE or SVP somehow? It just got officially enabled for RTX 4000 GPUs in addition to the initial RTX 5000 models.
I have smooth motion on globally but I can't get my media player or anything to recognize it. However this reminded me to turn on smooth motion option in mpv and the even when I'm using remote desktop as well as the TV, the micro-stutters are reduced or gone. I used this setting before, but I probably over-complicated it by using multiple options when I should have just left it at default. So if this remains the case then I don't need RTX smooth motion anyway
Honza wrote:dawkinscm wrote:This was the impression I got when reading about Topaz vs SVP but that last post gave me pause for thought. I've noticed recently that the better the picture quality the better Rife looks. This doesn't quite make sense to me. It may just be a function of a more stable picture. Rife v4.25 is very smooth and does a good enough job at reducing artifacts. I'm still experimenting but I always go back to v4.25.
4.25 v2 is best for movies, I think.
4.25 v2 lite not, heavy is not working, 4.26 v2 heavy is the worst.
It may be good for regular movies, but not sports.
Typical challenge is boxes with timing, score etc and camera rolling when following a movement.
Boxes are bouncing, moving around, getting distorted, it is very unpleasant.
v2 is no longer needed according to the devs as there is no longer any advantage to using it which his true except maybe for GPU usage. I've just tried it for the first time in a while and it reduces my GPU load by at least 10% so unless I see some extra artifacts I'm going to stick with that. 4.25 is the best but also the most GPU intensive. 4.25 heavy and 4.26 heavy struggle to play my 4k content. But I remember them not being great anyway.
Honza wrote:dawkinscm wrote:Did you do the Rife 4.25 vs Topaz comparison?
Yes, I did.
Topaz 7.x with "Chronos fast" model seems to give best performace vs quality for Full HD 25 to 60 FPS conversion.
On my specs, it takes about 2x time of input video, with same output resolution.
Converting to native LCD FPS is primary benefit. Resolution is not so important because HW upscaling is doing good enough job, it makes processing time much slower and final file much larger.
Very user friendly, usually works out of the box, price is a bit higher but final quality is better.
It can do motion deblur, stabilization etc, which is more HW demanding (and out of reach for live playback on current high-end GPUs).
If I want to go for quality, Topaz is the way.
This was the impression I got when reading about Topaz vs SVP but that last post gave me pause for thought. I've noticed recently that the better the picture quality the better Rife looks. This doesn't quite make sense to me. It may just be a function of a more stable picture. Rife v4.25 is very smooth and does a good enough job at reducing artifacts. I'm still experimenting but I always go back to v4.25.
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