Topic: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

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How is SVP able to provide motion interpolation for 60hz monitors/screens, but actual HDTVs need to be 120hz or 240hz built in, in order to provide motion interpolation? People keep saying it's impossible to get the soap opera effect or interpolation on 60hz screens, but then again, we have SVP which we can use on our 60hz screens. Maybe the process works differently with HDTVs?

Also, what advantages do 240hz televisions over 120hz ones in terms of motion interpolation?


Also, how can you tweak SVP to look more like the motion interpolation that's on HDTVs, like motionflow for example, or even auto motion plus. I notice sony's motionflow has a different look in their interpolation compared to the other brands, at least with the bravia TV we have.

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

It's a marketing bullshit as no LCD TV has the panel able to show more than 120 Hz. So "240Hz" is 120 Hz panel plus some backlight blinking or 60 Hz plus even more blinking  big_smile

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Chainik If 60hz screens are able to produce the soap opera effect, what's the purpose of 120hz? Is it to insert the frames easily without any kind of special conversion or processor power?

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

60hz or 120hz are physical hardware specs.
"soap opera effect" is any refresh rate above "standard" 24-30 fps, and the question is only in "amount of smoothness" smile

And marketing specs like "900 Hz" are more like "effective FPS average customer will believe he see".

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Chainik In the market they should have 60hz tvs with soap opera effect, instead of paying over $400 for a 120hz tv with motion smoothing, but as it seems, TVs with 120hz motion interpolation are getting cheaper.

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Would you buy some cheap shit with only 60 Hz while there're "480 Hz" models at the same price?

It's just a common trend now, like 2K screens in the phones for example. Or 4K/8K video wink


BTW there was a topic here recently - http://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2007

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Chainik Was watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd7Tj_3GLMY. See, I don't understand, SVP interpolates frames based on the 60hz refresh rate, but obviously, it has to insert extra frames. Inserting extra frames in between original ones would make it 120fps. So you're watching content at 120fps on a 60hz monitor. You're basically seeing the smoothness, but not the actual 120fps, because there is hardly a difference between 60 and 120. I don't understand how the content remains 60fps with SVP if extra frames are being inserted. Isn't that why 120hz TVs exist, so they can put the frames in between the originals, in which the 60hz can't? If I am wrong, then all these TV manufacturers could have just used a 60hz panel and used smoothing like SVP does, instead of using the higher refresh rate panels, since you'll see the smoothing effect no matter what.

Watch that video, btw.

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

WolfyAmbassador
I don't understand, SVP interpolates frames based on the 60hz refresh rate, but obviously, it has to insert extra frames. Inserting extra frames in between original ones would make it 120fps.

nope, the original fps is always 24 Hz (or 25, or 30)
so SVP is interpolating from 24 to 60 in 98% cases

for the 1% having 120 Hz screen - SVP can interpolate from 24 to 120


About that Sony video - they talk about video processor, it obviously can produce any target frame rate, so SVP can.

If you really want to find the truth - choose any particular Sony's TV with that "240 Hz" technology and download the user manual, then open the specs in the end (with "supported modes" section). It'll give use the real LCD panel refresh rate.

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Chainik Wow, there's like no difference between 120 and 60 in terms of interpolation, they both have the same level of smoothness it seems. Or maybe the manufacturers of the 120hz TVs turn down the interpolation a little bit to reduce the artifacts of interpolating such frames. We have a TV with Motionflow 120, and there's two modes, "High" and Standard". I'll just talk about the high mode. It produces smoothness, but it's not as smooth compared to SVP it seems, even though it's 120fps, vs the 60fps on my laptop. They (manufacturers) probably tweak it down on the big TVs so that it works well, instead of just plain smoothness.

Also, SVP can be a pain in the ass, especially on this budget AMD A6 laptop I use. I can't use the GPU acceleration mode, because it doesn't work. I can only use the CPU, and when it starts giving me "high cpu usage" message in MPC-HC I have to turn the shader down to "fastest for slow PC", but it introduces heavy waviness, blockiness, and distortion. So yeah, SVP works, but not perfectly. At least I can have interpolation though hmm. I sometimes get the high cpu usage while in a skype call or when the CPU randomly spikes, and it forces me to tune down SVP. Right now I have "fastest for slow PC" and "12px grid" settings.

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Chainik wrote:

It's just a common trend now, like 2K screens in the phones for example


Well, 2K screens on smartphones DO make some sense (if the screen is relatively big).
Say a Galaxy Note 3. That has a 2K display wich is 5,7 inches large.

The theoretical highest resolution that a human eye can see is a 2K display at a distance of 1,6 x Screen diagonale (or 4K at 0,8 x diagonale or 8K at 0,4 x diagonale)

5,7 inch x 1,6 = 9,12 Inch =  @ 23,16 centimeters eye distance to that display = 1 Pixel is the smallest object an average human eye can see. 23,15cm is still a reasonable distance. Means 2K for such a display is reasonable too. 4K however wouldnt. wink

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

WolfyAmbassador
budget AMD A6 laptop I use. I can't use the GPU acceleration mode, because it doesn't work

It should work on each and every A-series CPU. May be you don't have OpenCL part of video driver installed.

12 (edited by WolfyAmbassador 06-06-2014 17:13:43)

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Chainik When I press the "GPU acceleration/OpenCL" option in SVP, it makes the audio of the video become out of sync, plus the video becomes slow, and gives me high CPU usage messages, or something like "performance is low, lower your settings". To be honest, I don't know how the OpenCL stuff works.

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Maybe I have to download this? http://developer.amd.com/tools-and-sdks … g-app-sdk/

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

OKay, welp apparently I do have OpenCL, but it still is giving me trouble. The audio cuts out and gives me messages like this "performance low, SVP index=85" or something like that, and there's a weird flickering on the left edge and top and bottom parts of the video of the video, which is affecting the left side mostly. Plus, the video doesn't autocrop like it would on the CPU.

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Here's the check list:
- use MPC-HC
- with internal LAV video decoder set to "DXVA (copy-back)"
- and video renderer set to EVR or "EVR Custom"
- turn off all video processing options in AMD Catalyst


a weird flickering on the left edge and top and bottom parts of the video of the video

your video has thin black lines on edges, crop it

Plus, the video doesn't autocrop like it would on the CPU.

it just can't be truth  big_smile

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Chainik It's not black flickering, it's like VHS tape type flickering, like when the film gets slightly crumbled or something. It's only on the left edge and top and bottom parts of the video content.

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Alright, everything seems to work fine so far after I followed your steps, although the fan is louder when GPU acceleration is on. I already followed another person's step where you turn video processing off on the AMD Catalyst, but I went back a second time in your steps and realized not all video processing was turned off hmm. I actually had to turn off more video settings in the AMD Catalyst, like "Edge Enhancement, De-interlacing", and quite a few more in that section.

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Yeah I know. It's because the one-pixel black (or gray) line at the edge.

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Chainik It's on GPU acceleration mode, but I am getting "high CPU usage warning" when I am hosting a skype group call.

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Every time I try to reset to default SVP settings, it screws up the whole SVP where no matter what setting I choose, the CPU usage stays too high. Basically I have to Re-install SVP all over again to fix the glitch.

So here's what happens. I install SVP, it works fine when I choose the right settings, but if I reset to default to experiment with other settings, then re-choose my original settings that worked, it won't work. No matter what setting I choose, it'll be stuck at the "high CPU usage" with the wrong settings, even if I re-selected the original settings that worked for me through SVP manager. For instance, I'll have a setting with little or no issues for me, then experiment with GPU acceleration/other settings, and it doesn't work well (high load issue), and I'll go back to regular CPU mode with decent settings, no longer works and causes high load issues when it clearly worked at those settings when I originally selected them, like either the player no longer changes settings or SVP broke or it stopped changing settings. I have to uninstall everything, including the built in MPC-HC, then re-install it in order to make the whole thing work again, because resetting to defaults breaks the whole thing, and creates a forever "high cpu load issue", and changing SVP back to the "working" settings I chose originally since I installed it won't fix the issue.

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Also, when the gpu acceleration actually works, it doesn't even help the CPU conserve load by much, and it only works alongside the "CPU" setting in the main "reset settings" menu. When I go into the reset settings and choose "GPU" in the drop down bar along with gpu acceleration setting, the video won't work, it causes severe high load issues, and it's what screws up SVP in the fist place where I can't even get my original settings back which I was explaining above. So only CPU works, and GPU acceleration (somewhat) together, but GPU doesn't work, and screws up SVP.

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Performance test isn't perfect so just select profiles one step below auto-detected ones.
e.g. if you get "CPU performance level" = 3 then choose "2. Core2 Quad,..." in the list

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Chainik I do that. It usually autodetects the second lowest in profiles, but sometimes switches, but then I put it to the lowest anyway, but it still doesn't fix the issue where the settings get stuck in (GPU mode)and don't want to change back to the settings that worked, regardless of what's chosen and I get all these "high load" OSD messages, then I have to reinstall the whole thing all over again. Surprisingly, yesterday I restarted my computer, and I left SVP alone for a little while I was typing my previous messages to you, then I unchecked "GPU acceleration", then rechecked it and somehow it works again without re-installing everything, but still. GPU acceleration seems to be only somewhat useful when you want to use higher shaders or other settigns, but it still puts load on the CPU.

24 (edited by WolfyAmbassador 07-06-2014 11:40:58)

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Chainik wrote:

Yeah I know. It's because the one-pixel black (or gray) line at the edge.

About the flickering, okay basically, it's surrounds the content like a frame, It's usually on low quality videos that aren't HD. It's basically a flickering border surrounding the video, and it changes intensity with certain scenes and videos. I think it's the interpolation. It's an issue on GPU acceleration. Any possible way to fix?


Let's use this for example: http://m.rgbimg.com/cache1vqjTO/users/w … QwOhU.jpg, let's say the video content is the white inside the border itself. When videos are played, the rectangle border will start flashing/flickering. Kinda, funny, because the issue in MPC-HC kinda looks like that picture, like the shape of the artifact, except it's clear and flashes/flickers.

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

WolfyAmbassador
Any possible way to fix?

I've already said - crop the edges and leave only the "clean" frame.