1 Topic by hoover1979 (edited by hoover1979 25-10-2016 12:25:24)

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Topic: Dropped frames with MPC-HC (32bit)

I am getting a big issue on frame dropping on SVP 4 pro with MPC-HC (32bit) and Mad VR.

I have disabled fullscreen exclusive mode and enabled windowed overlay, but this is not helping.

I can't use MPC-HC (64bit) as even though I have a 64bit OS the 64bit version of MPC-HC insta-crashes 9 out of 10 times the moment I try to open a video, and the DrDump page that appears in the browser popup says the crash is a new problem the MPC-HC team have not encountered on every MPC-HC crash I get.

I am playing personal backups of my Bu-Ray and DVD libraries that are encoded without a loss of quality. (to keep my discs scratch free and allow me to change movies at a click of the mouse rather than changing discs)

eg: 30Mbps Video bitrate with 48,000Hz DTS HD-MA 5.1 audio.  (I have a soundblaster Zx and Logitech z506 5.1 surround speakers)

I have my sound settings at 5.1 96,000Hz in both Windows and the Sound Blaster Control Panel.

I also resample the audio in MPC-HC to 96,000HZ with a denoise setting of 5 and crystalizer enabled in FFDShow Audio Processor for improved audio fidelity

I have FFDShow Raw Video filter and FFDShow Audio Processor added in External filters and ReClock Audio Decoder removed from external filters to allow FFDshow Audio processor to appear.

My PC is set up in my lounge room as a TV (Via a TV tuner) + 3D Surround Sound Home Theater + 3D Surround Sound Gaming System

When I play my DVD backups I also use ffdshow's resize filter with Lanczos (Both Luma and Chroma with 10 taps on both) which greatly increases image quality.  Frames drop with this enabled and disabled.

I also get crashes on MPC-HC if I seek quickly on both DVD and Blu-Ray backups.

I don't try running the discs itself on MPC-HC as I have an old blu-ray drive (I jumped on the PC blu-ray bandwagon early) so I do not think the discs will spin fast enough for SVP or even to play 3D blu-rays on PowerDVD Live as it is only a 4x speed drive.

I don't know what is causing the frame dropping I have tried uninstalling svp and all it's components and doing a clean install as this has solved other issues I had in the past (Except this one).  I tried the latest Nvidia Display drivers, but that caused choppy playback on all settings.  so I reverted to the 372.90 drivers.  I have tried "No acceleration", "DXVA2 (Copy-Back)" and "NVIDIA CUVID" in the "LAV Video Decoder (internal)" and I get frame dropping on all of those settings.

I am currently watching "Ted - Extended edition" and I pressed "CTRL + J" at 0:52:43 and got informed that 54612 frames were dropped and 5 presentation glitches. 

Running in "EVR (Custom Presenter)" also gives me frame drops galore.    I can't seem to find how exactly many frames get dropped with CTRL + J in EVR (Custom Presenter) but I notice dropped frames visually when panning happens in a movie and I see the tiny jerks in the movement that indicate frames are being dropped.

Smooth motion in Mad VR has been disabled as I get and always got a slideshow with that enabled.   I am running at 5x framerate on a 120Hz monitor (ASUS VG278).and would love a solution that does not mean having to drop it to 2x framerate.

also I found having a set framerate of 120fps or even 60fps meant at the start of every movie the sound would cut off completely for half a second even though I get the 120fps on 5x with 24fps videos and no sound cut off on 5X framerate (with same framerate as fixed 120fps)

I am not using debanding, sharpening, detail enhancing, edge sharpening, super res or deringing in Mad VR and am using DXVA2 for image upsize and downsize and soft bicubic at 100 on chroma upsizing and downsizing.

PC SPECS:
Windows 7 professional 64bit on 120GB Kingston HyperX Fury SSD
ASUS Z97-k Motherboard)
32Gb Corsair Vengeance Pro 2400 DDR3 RAM
4.0Ghz Intel Core i7-4790k (Not OC'd)
Noctua NH-L12 CPU Cooler
4Gb Gigabyte GTX970 G1 Gaming (not user OC'd)
ASUS VG278 27" 120Hz 3D Monitor with Nvidia 3D Vision 2 (3D disabled when not playing 3D games or watching 3D Movies)
nearly 20TB of total storage (3Tb WD elements External HDD Used for my movie backups for portability, plugged into USB 3.0 port 1Tb WD Elements External disconnected when 3Tb in use to conserve USB Bandwidth)
Sound Blaster Zx Sound Card with DTS 5.1 enabled
Logitech Z506 150w 5.1 Surround Speakers (Will Upgrade to Logitech Z906 1000w 5.1 Surround speakers soon)
AfterGlow Xbox360 wired Controller in USB 3.0 port
Targus Bluetooth 4.0 dongle in USB 3.0 port
Microsoft Bluetooth Mouse
Logitech K260 Wireless Keyboard in USB 3.0 port
Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Flightstick (Only connected when playing flightsims to conserve USB Bandwidth)
ASUSPCE-AC68U Wireless PCIe Wifi Adapter (linked to ASUS RT-AC68U Router on 5Ghz Band)

SVP 4 Pro Settings:

Frames Interpolation Mode: "Uniform (Max Fluidity)"
SVP Shader: "Standard" (Other shaders cause weird artifacts)
Artifacts Masking: "Strong"
Motion Vector Precision: "HAlf Pixel"
Motion Vectors grid "16Px, Average 0" ( any smaller size than that makes either choppy playback or slideshow)
Decrease Grid Step: "By Two with Global Refinement"
Search Radius: "Large"
Widw Search: "Strongest"
Width of top coarse level: "Large"
Processing od scene Changes "Repeat Frame"
Rendering Device: "GeForce GTX 970"
Frame Rate: "5x Framerate"
Crop Video Frame: "Disabled"
Outer Lighting: "Disabled"
2D Mode: "Enabled"
Reset on Seek: "Soft Reset"
Threads Used "Auto" (I am unsure what to use on 8 core CPU as there are higher levels than 8 to choose from)
Alter Video Frame Size: "Disabled"

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe my hardware should not have any issues with SVP 4 Pro

If any other information is needed please ask and I will inform.

Please assist.  This is driving me up the wall.

EDIT 1:
I am also getting 2-3 dropped frames per second at 2x framerate (48Fps) on Mad VR

EDIT 2:
When playing DVD backups on "EVR (Custom Presenter)" the audio and video are about half a second out of sync right from the start, even without FFDShow resize enabled, and on different SVP settings and on 2x framerate all the way up to 5x framerate settings, even though 1080p movies have no sync issues on "EVR (Custom Presenter)".

Although on 1080p backups I get better performance on "EVR (Custom Presenter)" DVD backups are unwatchable due to atrocious audio/video sync issues and I find it an annoyance having to keep changing the renderer every time I switch between Blu-Ray backups and DVD backups.

EDIT 3:
Frames drop like crazy on Mad VR even when windowed.  Frames also drop like crazy when I set my monitor's display to 1280x720 and even when I change my refresh rate to 60Hz. This happens also on both windowed and fullscreen, even on 2x framerate. every second between 20-30 frames are dropped on 5x framerate and 5-10 are droped on 2x framerate every second, windowed and fullscreen.

EDIT 4:
By switching from FFDShow Raw Video Filter to FFDShow Video Decoder, I don't get nearly as many dropped frames, but the presentation glitches just rocket through the roof.  Over 400 in 12 seconds and it just kept going up and up rapidly and never slowed down.  With FFDShow Video Decoder Audio/Video sync issues on DVD backups are not an issue in "EVR (Custom Presenter)", my mouse buttons becomes completely unresponsive in fullscreen and in windowed mode the mouse buttons are unresponsive when the cursor is inside the bounds of the MPC-HC window, meaning navigating my playlists is completely impossible. 

I just can't ****ing win here!

EDIT 5:
I have improved things quite a bit by re-enabling the Raw video filter, setting the framerate to 4x, (around 100fps)

In the "General" settings in the "rendering" section of Mad VR I have:

Enable Windowed overlay: Enabled
Enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode: Disabled (Frame drops are at their worst in exclusive mode)
Disable Desktop Composition: Enabled (With Only in Fullscreen mode: Disabled)
Use Direct3D 11 for presentation: Disabled (Big improvement there)

In Svp Settings:

Frames Interpolation Mode: "Uniform (Max Fluidity)"
SVP Shader: "Standard" (Other shaders cause weird artifacts)
Artifacts Masking: "Strong"
Motion Vector Precision: "HAlf Pixel"
Motion Vectors grid "16Px, Average 0" ( any smaller size than that makes either choppy playback or slideshow)
Decrease Grid Step: "Disabled"
Search Radius: "Small and Fast"
Wide Search: "Disabled"
Width of top coarse level: "Small"
Processing od scene Changes "Repeat Frame"
Rendering Device: "GeForce GTX 970"
Frame Rate: "4x Framerate"
Crop Video Frame: "Disabled"
Outer Lighting: "Disabled"
2D Mode: "Enabled"
Reset on Seek: "Soft Reset"
Threads Used "Auto"
Alter Video Frame Size: "Disabled"

I played a 1080p movie and I had 27 dropped frames in 8 mins of playback at 100fps.

4x framerate seems smoother than 5x framerate due to significantly less dropped frames.  However on 5x framerate the dropped frames count is ever increasing but significantly slower (1-10 per second instead of 20-30).

Another thing I noticed is with the FFDShow resize filter enabled MPC-HC insta-crashes trying to open flash video files (.FLV) with the resize filter disabled during playback of a MKV or MP4 first, then FLV files open without a hitch. 

I wonder what it is that cause FLV files to crash the media player when FFDShow's resize filter is enabled? 

FLV files open everytime with the resize filter enabled if I disable SVP 4 Pro.

If there is a way to kill frame dropping without having to lower these SVP settings please let me know.

2 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 25-10-2016 19:59:43)

Re: Dropped frames with MPC-HC (32bit)

You never stated whether you tried EVR with D3D Fullscreen or not.


And just to clarify, even on 64bit Windows, 32bit MPC-HC is recommended for SVP because 64bit AviSynth is extremely crash-prone (for reference 64bit MPC-HC works perfectly fine if you don't use AviSynth and therefore SVP).

3 Reply by hoover1979 (edited by hoover1979 30-10-2016 05:28:57)

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Re: Dropped frames with MPC-HC (32bit)

I don't normally use D3D FullScreen with EVR as I can't access my GUI with D3D FullScreen enabled, and because I use playlists, it means going to windowed to change to another video in the playlist and back to fullscreen.

With my current settings I have minimized dropped frames significantly.

Usually I get 4-10 dropped in the first second of opening a video and it stays at that for the duration of the movie.

I am experimenting still to get the best setup for my rig.

I am glad I can use the MadVR image enhancement settings without problems (LumaSharpen, Enhance Detail, Sharpen Edges, Crisp edges, and thin edges).

It is best (for me) to have 4:2:0 8bit (YV12) as output in "FFDshow Raw Video Filter" to have less frames drop in the first second. 

I am trying having debanding enabled in MadVR on my previous setup it was fine untill 45 mins into a movie then dropped 5 full seconds of video.  I have made more tweaks in SVP4, MadVR, FFDshow and LAV and will try to see if I get a full movie with debanding enabled without any problems.

when I get a perfect setup I will share the settings in depth with the SVP community.

Re: Dropped frames with MPC-HC (32bit)

hoover1979 wrote:

I don't normally use D3D FullScreen with EVR as I can't access my GUI with D3D FullScreen enabled, and because I use playlists, it means going to windowed to change to another video in the playlist and back to fullscreen.

But could you still test it?

Also you can use the Page Up and Page Down keyboard keys to go to the next/previous item in the current playlist.

  • biff
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Re: Dropped frames with MPC-HC (32bit)

If MPC-HC becomes too much of a hassle, you might try the 64bit version of PotPlayer. Doesn't crash using Nvidia Cuvid  (so I haven't used a 32bit player in months.) Its built-in "VRM9/EVR scaler" can be adjusted to achieve much the same effect as MadVR but uses less than half as much GPU processing power. So I haven't used MadVr in months either. I don't know if it will solve your other problems, but it's an option to keep in mind.

Re: Dropped frames with MPC-HC (32bit)

biff wrote:

If MPC-HC becomes too much of a hassle, you might try the 64bit version of PotPlayer. Doesn't crash using Nvidia Cuvid  (so I haven't used a 32bit player in months.)

The crashes with SVP + 64bit MPC-HC that I attested to have nothing to do with Nvidia CUVID considering that I experience said crashes on my desktop PC that completely lacks an Nvidia GPU...

That's not to say that CUVID is issue-free though - there have definitely been stability issues with SVP + CUVID on Windows 10.

7 Reply by hoover1979 (edited by hoover1979 02-12-2016 09:46:41)

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Re: Dropped frames with MPC-HC (32bit)

I am having huge problems again.  This morning I was getting good performance with SVP at 4x framerate.  It would drop 5 frams in the first second and no mor from then on.  I turn on my pc this evening after getting home from work, and with NO change to my system settings, MPC-HC settings or SVP 4 settings I am getting crazy frame drops on any framerate above 2x.  on 4x fromerate I am dropping 75 out of 100 frames a second, meaning all of the interpolated frames are dropping.

I don't know  what happened!  This morning it was great, and this evening it is running the worst it has ever had.  on the default settings I would probably be getting less than 24fps as all the SVP frames would drop and some of the source frames would drop too. 

How does it go from great performance in the morning to woeful performance in the evening without any changes or any new software installed in the interim. 

Several restarts have not solved the problem and a reinstall of the drivers did not help either

Is my new GPU dying?!

EDIT: for some unexplained reason, my Drivers changed my refresh rate from 120Hz to 60Hz.

is there a way to stop the refresh rate on my GTZ970 from changing itself to 60Hz on my 120Hz monitor?

Re: Dropped frames with MPC-HC (32bit)

hoover1979 wrote:

is there a way to stop the refresh rate on my GTZ970 from changing itself to 60Hz on my 120Hz monitor?

Make a custom EDID via CRU - Custom Resolution Utility and remove any and all refresh rates that aren't 120Hz?

9 Reply by Anim8 (edited by Anim8 04-12-2016 05:32:15)

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Re: Dropped frames with MPC-HC (32bit)

hoover1979 wrote:

In Svp Settings:

Threads Used "Auto"

Your i7-4790K has 4cores/8threads.
Auto may not be using enough threads or not correctly identifying your CPU.

8 threads * 1.8 = 14.4,
So try setting threads to 15, hopefully that will fix your issue.
120fps should work just fine, as should 12px for motion vectors with your setup.

You will likely find you can now also turn back on Decrease Grid Step without dropping frames which is a huge CPU hog, especially with global refinement.
If you do turn it back on I would just use local refinement as it uses far less resources than global which is not much of a improvement IMO.


hoover1979 wrote:

EDIT: for some unexplained reason, my Drivers changed my refresh rate from 120Hz to 60Hz.

is there a way to stop the refresh rate on my GTZ970 from changing itself to 60Hz on my 120Hz monitor?

This is a known Nvidia issue, when your GPU driver updates it resets back to 60hz. They really need to fix this as its annoying.
For now each time you update your driver just go and set it back to 120hz after each update.
Using frame rates higher than your refresh rate will result in video skips/jumps, frame drops etc.

10 Reply by hoover1979 (edited by hoover1979 05-12-2016 06:03:42)

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Re: Dropped frames with MPC-HC (32bit)

Anim8 wrote:

Your i7-4790K has 4cores/8threads.
Auto may not be using enough threads or not correctly identifying your CPU.

8 threads * 1.8 = 14.4,
So try setting threads to 15, hopefully that will fix your issue.
120fps should work just fine, as should 12px for motion vectors with your setup.

You will likely find you can now also turn back on Decrease Grid Step without dropping frames which is a huge CPU hog, especially with global refinement.
If you do turn it back on I would just use local refinement as it uses far less resources than global which is not much of a improvement IMO.

Thanks for your reply and for wanting to assist.

I set 15 threads, turned on grid step to local refinement and set the motion vector to 12px and set the FPS to 120fps

I drop 5-6 frames every second of playback on those settings.

maybe it is an issue with Windows 7 pro (x64), some obscure system driver I am not aware of or an issue with my CPU being on it's last legs.  My GPU (Gigabyte GTX970 G1 Gaming)  is only a few months old as it is a brand new replacement from an RMA after the DVi ports and then the GPU fried on the last one in less than a year. (The original was irreparable so they shipped me a shiny new one)

I can not push beyond 96fps without a frame drop fiesta.  No matter what my settings are in SVP4, MPC-HC or MADVR/EVR(CP). sad

I hope I get some improvement in the future when I get a GTX1080.

I would like to hear from someone from the SVP development team as I believe their input could be of value.


EDIT: if I allow "DX11" or "Exclusive Fullscreen" the frame drop rate is 3-4 times as much, and I can lose well over 30 frames per second using if using "DX11" & "Exclusive Fullscreen" together on any FPS beyond "2x source" on 24fps (48FPS).

11 Reply by Anim8 (edited by Anim8 05-12-2016 07:26:35)

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Re: Dropped frames with MPC-HC (32bit)

I wonder how much GPU load you have during playback, maybe madVR is putting too much load on it.

Can you try using a different DirectShow Video? (Not madVR for testing purposes)

Edit: Nevermind I noticed you have tried that already.

Your system is very close to mine in terms of CPU/GPU power and I have no problems with 120FPS.
For reference I'm using 6700k@4.2Ghz, 16gb ram and a R9 390. OS, is Win10 x64

12 Reply by hoover1979 (edited by hoover1979 05-12-2016 09:26:16)

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Re: Dropped frames with MPC-HC (32bit)

Anim8 wrote:

I wonder how much GPU load you have during playback, maybe madVR is putting too much load on it.

Can you try using a different DirectShow Video? (Not madVR for testing purposes)

Edit: Nevermind I noticed you have tried that already.

Your system is very close to mine in terms of CPU/GPU power and I have no problems with 120FPS.
For reference I'm using 6700k@4.2Ghz, 16gb ram and a R9 390. OS, is Win10 x64

Maybe the issue is either windows 7 or Nvidia drivers.

These are my guessas for the following reasons.

Windows 7 has had recent problems, from failing windows update to access violations on numerous programs (Probably deliberate from Microsoft in there aggressive push to for all PC users to use Windows 10)

Nvidia drivers are always bad.  Nvidia is great hardware but poor drivers, this has always been the case.  Rolling back drivers will likely do more harm than good and prevent newer games from running properly (or at all)

if I still get these issues after I get a gtx1080 I will have to point my finger at Windows.  I wish I could use a 6th gen i7 without windows 10, but Intel sold out to microsoft so those CPU's gimp themselves on non Windows 10 rigs :'(

13 Reply by pneumatic (edited by pneumatic 05-12-2016 15:42:15)

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Re: Dropped frames with MPC-HC (32bit)

I don't have to time read the whole thread but just wanted to say I had frame dropping and solved it by going into Application Settings -> Additional Options -> All Settings -> Target -> Tolerance = 0.

By default it was set to 0.02 or something like that which meant the interpolated frame rate was allowed to be out of sync by 2% in relation to the refresh rate which caused a constant micro stutter.

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Re: Dropped frames with MPC-HC (32bit)

pneumatic wrote:

Tolerance = 0

I want to add: You can use one of combinations:
1) default Tolerance = 0.02 and ReClock. You will get best quality because of more integer smooth ratio like x2, x5/2 and so on.
2) Tolerance = 0 without ReClock. You will get more GPU load and more crasy smooth ratios like x1999/1001. But you will get original audio speed and pitch.

15 Reply by hoover1979 (edited by hoover1979 22-12-2016 13:17:05)

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Re: Dropped frames with MPC-HC (32bit)

pneumatic wrote:

I don't have to time read the whole thread but just wanted to say I had frame dropping and solved it by going into Application Settings -> Additional Options -> All Settings -> Target -> Tolerance = 0.

By default it was set to 0.02 or something like that which meant the interpolated frame rate was allowed to be out of sync by 2% in relation to the refresh rate which caused a constant micro stutter.

by setting tolerance to 0 1080p videos don't seem to drop frames (apart from in the first second) like crazy at 120FPS.  However any resolution under 1080p and the frames drop like crazy.  Even without FFDshow's resize filter on.  It seems the extra processing power needed just to stretch the resolution to fill the screen causes crazy frame drops on settings above 96FPS.

EDIT: I found that although at first frames don't drop on 1080p, after a few mins of playback the frames start to drop.  First 1-2 per second and after 30+ seconds it drops 50-60 frames every second.  I wonder if it is either the CPU or GPU hitting 100% usage and the media player pooping it's pants because of no free resources left?  In order to just watch a video I had to force 96FPS in SVP4, as any higher level causes havoc of the frame dropping variety. 

On occasion the video freezes for 2 seconds while the audio continues leaving the audio 2 seconds out of sync with the video, forcing me to quit and restart the media player (MPC-HC).