Topic: "Decrese to HD" downsizes to 1280px or 720p regardless of aspect ratio

I had been doing some SVP tests on an HD5450 I had gotten for free, and in the process I discovered that the "Decrease to HD" downsizes to 1280px wide or 720p regardless of the source video's aspect ratio.


If the source video is 1920x800, the resulting video in after SVP's downsize will be something like 1280x534.

If the source video is 1440x1080, the resulting video in after SVP's downsize will be something like 960x720.


Is this in fact the the intended behavior?

I was just wondering this since both 1280x534 and 960x720 have around 25% fewer total pixels than 1280x720 does; to have actual similar total pixels they'd have to use a resolution of something like 1480x616 and 1104x828.

Re: "Decrese to HD" downsizes to 1280px or 720p regardless of aspect ratio

> Is this in fact the the intended behavior?

yep

3 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 21-02-2018 08:57:39)

Re: "Decrese to HD" downsizes to 1280px or 720p regardless of aspect ratio

Chainik wrote:

yep

Is there a particular benefit for SVP to behave in its current way that I am unaware of?

Re: "Decrese to HD" downsizes to 1280px or 720p regardless of aspect ratio

this behavior just looks logical to me
and it works the same way as "decrease to screen size" does

5 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 21-02-2018 09:57:19)

Re: "Decrese to HD" downsizes to 1280px or 720p regardless of aspect ratio

It would make sense to me if 1280px width or 720p was a common laptop, monitor, or TV resolution...but unfortunately it is not.


Other than 10+ year old laptops (1280x800), 10+ year old monitors (1280x1024), and tablet/mobile devices that don't use x86 CPUs (1280x720 and 1280x800), nearly all displays are 1360x768 at minimum (including TVs that are advertised as 720p).  This means that nearly anybody using the the downsize to HD (720p) combined with fullscreen is going to be doing some sort of upscaling, so you'd ideally want to have as much of the source resolution as possible without it causing a reduction in performance.

For example, I currently use "downsize to HD" on my PC that is connected to a 1080p display as the PC's performance is inadequate for SVP to process at a full 1080p.  For videos with a 16:9 aspect ratio like 1920x1080, I'm getting the full resolution possible that my PC hardware could handle.  However, with any other aspect ratio like 2.4:1 and 1920x800, the fact that it downsizes all the way to 1280x534 means I'm actually leaving performance and/or resolution on the table as that is something like 25% fewer pixels than 1280x720.


The way I see it, because the resulting image is almost certainly going to be upscaled anyway, why wouldn't the user prefer a higher resolution result that would still have identical performance to the likes of 1280x720?

Re: "Decrese to HD" downsizes to 1280px or 720p regardless of aspect ratio

You can create different profiles for handling these scenarios, and use filters to switch between them automatically.

It would be interesting if SVP had an auto mode where it determines a "pixels per second" value (or something similar) that the machine can handle, and resize to that. But I'd rather the development effort be spent on getting 4k 10 bit HDR to work smoothly with SVP smile

7 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 25-02-2018 00:39:20)

Re: "Decrese to HD" downsizes to 1280px or 720p regardless of aspect ratio

Taudris wrote:

You can create different profiles for handling these scenarios, and use filters to switch between them automatically.

The profiles only change the interpolation settings, not the downscale or crop settings which are only applied globally and must be changed manually.

Thing is though, CPU performance isn't the issue in that I can run SVP at such high settings at 1280x720 to the point of the interpolation artifacts becoming problematic, but rather it's my GPU than can't handle interpolating anything greater than maybe 1440x800 or so.

8 (edited by James D 25-02-2018 01:10:05)

Re: "Decrese to HD" downsizes to 1280px or 720p regardless of aspect ratio

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:

Is there a particular benefit for SVP to behave in its current way that I am unaware of?

How would people behave expecting HD standard video which isn't HD standard?
HD= 1280x720. Video must fit in this resolution with 1 video pixel matching 1 screen pixel.
End of story.

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:

The way I see it, because the resulting image is almost certainly going to be upscaled anyway, why wouldn't the user prefer a higher resolution result that would still have identical performance to the likes of 1280x720?

Decrease to HD is decreasing to a standard, not to some kind of performance constanta like "1 svpatra".
The way I see it, 720p has direct 1.5x ratio upscaling to FHD.
The way I see it, HD laptops are still on the market right now in b level markets for manufacturers same as 4GB RAM versions and Pentium CPU-based.
The way I see it, people can set whatever resolution they want in Pro version.

9 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 25-02-2018 02:14:59)

Re: "Decrese to HD" downsizes to 1280px or 720p regardless of aspect ratio

James D wrote:

Decrease to HD is decreasing to a standard, not to some kind of performance constanta like "1 svpatra".

The issue here is total pixel count and resolution, performance is merely a side-effect as it happens to partially result from those values.  1280x720 is around 0.92 megapixels while 1280x534 is around 0.68 megapixels making the latter considerably below what is considered "HD".


James D wrote:

The way I see it, 720p has direct 1.5x ratio upscaling to FHD.

Ideally downscaling based on total pixels vs horizontal/vertical pixels would be two separate options (similar to the way SVP 3.1 had both "1280px width"/"720p height" as well as "75% of original size").


James D wrote:

HD laptops are still on the market right now

As already mentioned, unless it's a non-x86 tablet or smartphone, 99.99% of all displays marketed as "HD" are actually 1366x768 rather than 1280x720.  Remember that 1024x768 is the minimal resolution for Windows 8 and newer, and you obviously can't fit that on a 1280x720 display without downscaling (which would be sub-optimal for text clarity).


James D wrote:

people can set whatever resolution they want in Pro version.

I'm using the pro version and have been since SVP 4 was in beta as I backed the original SVP4 Indiegogo fundraiser (you'll notice my username is present on the "Version and credits").

Nevertheless, unless I'm missing something, you actually can't resize the video resolution to whatever - that only applies to cropping; the only resizing options are "decrease to screen", "decrease to HD", and "resize to screen" and are applied globally.  This is one area what SVP 3.1 was actually more flexible in that it allowed you to resize to a variety of different sizes on a per-profile basis.

Re: "Decrese to HD" downsizes to 1280px or 720p regardless of aspect ratio

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:

The issue here is total pixel count and resolution, performance is merely a side-effect as it happens to partially result from those values.  1280x720 is around 0.92 megapixels while 1280x534 is around 0.68 megapixels making the latter considerably below what is considered "HD".

Then why do you consider 1920x800 videos as "FHD?
Tell me this: is 1108x831 a HD video for you?

SPOILER ALERT: Though its 'pixel count' equals HD, its heigh is even bigger than 1080p movies and essentially is nothing less than FHD movie with crop to 4:3 ratio. But you could call it HD, heh.

11 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 25-02-2018 03:13:04)

Re: "Decrese to HD" downsizes to 1280px or 720p regardless of aspect ratio

Could we please not drift too far off topic with regards to the original point of this thread?



James D wrote:

Then why do you consider 1920x800 videos as "FHD?

Uhh, because I don't?  FHD is defined as 1920x1080.


James D wrote:

Tell me this: is 1108x831 a HD video for you?

High definition yes, but not "full HD" as that's defined as 1920x1080.


James D wrote:

its heigh is even bigger than 1080p movies

1080p by definition means 1080 vertical pixels in progressive scan, and 831 is less than 1080.

Contrary to what marketing may claim, a 1920x800 movie is not actually 1080p but rather is more akin to 2k (which is defined by horizontal pixel amount, not vertical; though even that technically refers to the cinema resolution of 2048px wide rather than 1920).  However, the likes of a 2.39 aspect blu-ray movies will in fact technically be 1080p as the letterboxing is "burned" into the video stream itself, meaning the actual video stream of the movie on the disc is actually 1920x1080 even if a good chunk of that is just encoded as black bars.

12 (edited by James D 25-02-2018 03:23:42)

Re: "Decrese to HD" downsizes to 1280px or 720p regardless of aspect ratio

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:

Uhh, because I don't?  FHD is defined as 1920x1080. High definition yes, but not "full HD" as that's defined as 1920x1080. 1080p by definition means 1080 vertical pixels in progressive scan, and 831 is less than 1080.

Google '1080p/Full HD'movies'. Most will have ~800 height which is... less than 1080 vertical lines.
By your logic each 1080p movie must have its own resolution for its own ratio with constant height: 2592x1080, 2400x1080, 1920x1080.
The HD/UHD/SD movie standards were exactly created for avoiding this absurd.

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:

As already mentioned, unless it's a non-x86 tablet or smartphone, 99.99% of all displays marketed as "HD" are actually 1366x768 rather than 1280x720.

And as you pointed earlier about 1336x768 HD panels (dim down 768p interpolation perf question), 1488x620 is still above 1366 wide screen. What's your point of pointing it out then?
I pointed that SVP follows standards as everybody else to avoid all sorts of problems and backed it up.

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:

Could we please not drift too far off topic with regards to the original point of this thread?

You already got reply to the original point of topic:
1. resize to whatever size you want for your specific needs in Pro version. Done.
2. SVP handles standards, not specific situations which are numerous while standards were meant to deal with those efficiently. Period.

To evaluate my previous answer: frc/frame/resize. XXXXXXXX form (ex. 13660768 for 768p).

13 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 25-02-2018 03:56:54)

Re: "Decrese to HD" downsizes to 1280px or 720p regardless of aspect ratio

James D wrote:

Google '1080p/Full HD'movies'. Most will have ~800 height which is... less than 1080 vertical lines.

Much in the same way that "4k movies" don't have 4000 pixel widths even though 4k technically means it should, and much in the same way that 720p TVs will almost always be 768p, and much in the same way that 23.976fps and 29.97fps are commonly called "24fps" and "30fps" even though they're actually different from 24.00fps and 30.00fps.

Just because a term is used in a specific way does not mean it's actually accurate.  Most of these come down to human nature of feeling its "close enough", but this causes issues when one is trying to deal with specifics.


James D wrote:

The HD/UHD/SD movie standards were exactly created for avoiding this absurd.

HD/UHD/SD is a television standard where the common display is 16:9; movie standards follow different resolutions such as 2k (2048x1080) and 4k (4096x2160) which use the slightly-wider 1.85 aspect ratio.


James D wrote:

1488x620 is still above 1366 wide screen. What's your point of pointing it out then?

My point was that the specific "decrease to HD" function is therefore not particularly beneficial to those 768p users and they'd be better served by "decrease to screen" (which is SVP's default setting anyway).


James D wrote:

I pointed that SVP follows standards as everybody else to avoid all sorts of problems and backed it up.

There's nothing wrong with SVP's current resizing behavior, but its exposed functionality is a bit limited when compared to SVP 3.1 nevertheless.


James D wrote:

2. SVP handles standards, not specific situations which are numerous while standards were meant to deal with those efficiently. Period.

SVP's "resize to screen" handles any resolution including non-standard ones, so the ability for SVP to downsize to such non-standard resolutions.


James D wrote:

1. resize to whatever size you want for your specific needs in Pro version. Done.
To evaluate my previous answer:  frc/frame/resize. XXXXXXXX form (ex. 13660768 for 768p).

My apologies but I was completely unaware of the existence of this setting under "all settings".

Nevertheless, I'm at a loss on how to actually use such a setting on a per-profile basis as my understanding is that such settings are applied globally.

14 (edited by James D 25-02-2018 04:28:24)

Re: "Decrese to HD" downsizes to 1280px or 720p regardless of aspect ratio

From Wiki https://www.svp-team.com/wiki/Manual:Re … ge_Scaling

To select another mode, use the "frc.frame.resize" parameter in the Application settings section of the Control Panel.

Yes, globally, but why would you care if your problem is GPU limiting the max resolution, not the CPU performance, plus you are OK to uneven upscale as I understood? You can ask dev to create frame size override option for profiles but don't know if that is to be done either.

To be short as I don't plan to continue debates about video standards (video, not television: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_video) 1920x800 and 1280x536 are Full HD and HD (Ready) respectfully because in fullscreen you can see those black bars which were deleted while ripping for better comfortability in different playback scenarios.

15 (edited by James D 25-02-2018 04:18:05)

Re: "Decrese to HD" downsizes to 1280px or 720p regardless of aspect ratio

del