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Topic: Fixing incorrect framerates (ReClock?)

I don't quite understand how to work with DirectShow graphs, so I apologize in advance if should be obvious.

I have quite a few videos in my collection where someone has taken a 24 fps source and just sped it up to 25 fps. This really bugs me: the audio is pitched too high and the motions are too fast. All I want to do is slow this back down to 24 fps, then feed it into SVP for interpolation to my LCD's refresh rate. (I am using ffdshow as well: the postprocessing is indispensable.)

I would think that this is exactly why ReClock is included with SVP, but it seems to be at the wrong place in the rendering pipeline.

It seems to go
   ffdshow (incl. SVP) -> ReClock

I want it to go
   ReClock -> SVP

Is there a way to make this happen? (Or is there some alternative I can use?)

It seems like there's really no point using ReClock in conjunction with SVP otherwise, except maybe to do audio pitch correction.

I also find that ReClock gets really confused and can't tell the original framerate when SVP is running: it thinks everything is 59.849 Hz because that's the output of SVP.

I will really appreciate any help with this.  smile  I've spent enough time trying to figure it out on my own. (I promise I'll make a donation if someone has a solution and/or can explain this all to me so I understand.)

(One thing that really confuses me is that DirectShow seems to just treat ReClock as an audio renderer even though it can modify my video playback.)

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Re: Fixing incorrect framerates (ReClock?)

In my case i dont use ReClock because all my source material and media are not PAL.. in most cases always 23 /24 and 30 fps max.
Try to use PotPlayer or MP HC ( as you wish but in my taste i prefer PotPlayer ) + ffdshow + madvr + lav filters and splitters and SVP thats all. Try that and see what happen.

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Re: Fixing incorrect framerates (ReClock?)

I am already using MPC-HC and MadVR. smile The skin is ugly compared to Windows Media Player, but it's worth it for the improved video. I tried PotPlayer once but I can't remember why I decided I liked MPC-HC better.

I could get rid of ReClock, but do you have some other idea on how to correct the videos that claim the wrong framerate? I don't like the sped-up effect when someone has taken 24 fps but and encoded it as 25 fps. The pitch shift makes the voices sound weird and the too-fast motion looks phony and bizarre, especially with SVP enabled.

For now I can use ReClock to fix the framerate, but I end up at 57 fps instead of 60, which looks okay but obviously isn't optimal. (Plus it's a nuisance to have to reconfigure ReClock every time I open a new video since it can't detect the real underlying framerate.)

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Re: Fixing incorrect framerates (ReClock?)

ok i see i like more PotPlayer big_smile for me the best and not problems till now with it.
Sorry i still dont understand you well.. what is your real problem or what you want exactly? show with wich kind of media or file do you have problems? copy and paste here it stats. I think this is more deeper i mean its not just install and playback and thats all .. you need to do extra things to make it fix to your tastes or the best performance or for the best quality. SVPs come with a standard profiles but you can change to your own for better or different results.
I dont know if this help but i dont have problems for playback movies,etc at 25 or 24 or 30 fps for example. I just created one custom profile in the SVP for each case and its automatic adjust everytime i play them. Even if i disable SVP if for example i playback one movie or video of 25 fps it playback normal like if it were like 23 or 24 with madvr and if i enable SVP the final frames change depending of what kind of profile or settings im trying in the SVP.
Use the apps that i told you before and configure them. Set Lav Splitters for Splitters in your player, use madVR, install lastest FFDSHOW and dont install ReClock and see what happen and dont forget in SVP add new profile and try many settings on it till find the one you like, then save it and everytime you playback that kind of file orm edia that profile will load automatic for you.

Sorry for my bad english man. Good Luck.

  • MAG79
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Re: Fixing incorrect framerates (ReClock?)

Hello, sarah
You are right, ReClock is an audio-filter. It works at the end of DirectShow graph when rendering.
You can choose Framerate change 24->60 (2.5x) in SVP at Profile settings window with Advanced interface.
With 25 fps you will get 62.5 fps at out. Then use ReClock at 60 Hz display to speed down video to 60 fps. It is simple. smile

I wonder why you are using this 25 fps PAL-video, not source-video at 24 fps?
May be it will be great to convert such wrong video to right speed and save it before use. wink

it thinks everything is 59.849 Hz because that's the output of SVP
Refresh rate in Hz is a property of your display, not video, not SVP.

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Re: Fixing incorrect framerates (ReClock?)

HI GUYs when we are talking about the framrates i have just one question.(yeah just one:P)
When im playing sengoku basara (anime) in screen refresh rate of my 60 hrz lcd tv.The episode is 23.976fps and i get a bit of judder after always a few seconds when played at 60 hrz interpolation and in other series its more obvious but when i play it in double  frame rates 2x i get the judder after few seconds away so judderfree. in metal alchemist i get no judder when played at 60hrz 640:480 23.976fps its butter smooth, but it gets identified by svp like its 1280:720:S. I was wondering if it has something with the pulldown? 2:2 3:2 something? my settings in artifacts is set as in makens profile big_smile for 720p bad areas artifacts suppresion is set to normal and areas artifacts mask is set to light and i have frame repeating should i set it to blending? And what does it do?:P
My input in ffdshow is  I420 and output YV12 (does YV12 have better quality then any others?) I have mphc-->madvr-->lav decoders-->splitters-->svp

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Re: Fixing incorrect framerates (ReClock?)

kriiiim wrote:

HI GUYs when we are talking about the framrates i have just one question.(yeah just one:P)
When im playing sengoku basara (anime) in screen refresh rate of my 60 hrz lcd tv.The episode is 23.976fps and i get a bit of judder after always a few seconds when played at 60 hrz interpolation and in other series its more obvious but when i play it in double  frame rates 2x i get the judder after few seconds away so judderfree. in metal alchemist i get no judder when played at 60hrz 640:480 23.976fps its butter smooth, but it gets identified by svp like its 1280:720:S. I was wondering if it has something with the pulldown? 2:2 3:2 something? my settings in artifacts is set as in makens profile big_smile for 720p bad areas artifacts suppresion is set to normal and areas artifacts mask is set to light and i have frame repeating should i set it to blending? And what does it do?:P
My input in ffdshow is  I420 and output YV12 (does YV12 have better quality then any others?) I have mphc-->madvr-->lav decoders-->splitters-->svp

Hey man, how you been?

Try this:

1- I prefer PotPlayer ( lastest ) but its ok if you like mphc.
2- madVR v0.79 and in SCALLING ALGORITHMS set Choma Upscaling to Bicubic - Sharpness 60 if and the others two the same but Sharpness 50. This is for old gpus like Nvidia GTS 250 or less and ATi equivalent for ATi users. Otherwise then use Lanczos  for all with 4 Taps ( if your gpu is powerful enought ).
3- FFDSHOW rev 3996 or better. Go to OUTPUT and uncheck all there but leave YV12 and in STREAM SETTINGS enable SET INTERLACED FLAGS etc etc  etc only. YV12 the best quality performance or you can use RGB32 but it cost you more CPU usage big_smile so use YV12 very good quality and with performance.
4- Lav Filters and Splitters v0.42 or better.
5- If your video card is NVIDIA then install Drivers 285.79 or better.
6- In your Custom SVP Profile set this:

Smoothness Improvement: NORMAL
SVP-Shader: 13.STANDARD
Framerate Change: 24->60 1m (2.5x) or Double Framerate 2x as you wish try both. More there is more smooth bur give more judder so you need to change other settings to fix that.
Interpolated Frames Size: FULL SIZE
Search Radius: 2 PIXELS
Search Type: HEZAGON
Motion Estimation Accuracy: TO HALF-PIXEL ( Quarter Pixel is better but cost you in 1080p very high cpu usage if your cpu is Dual Core so better use it To Pixel or To Half-Pixel like max for 1080p but for 720p or less you can use Quarter Pixel but this is not always necessary all depending of the others settings your re using at )
Recalculation of Vectors: DO NOT RECALCULATE
Block Size: 32x16 PIXELS
Blocks Overlapping: NO OVERLAP ( this one help to reduce some judder but cost you more cpu usage so only recommended if your cpu is powerful enought )
Bad Areas Artifacts Suppression: NORMAL
Bad Areas Aftifacts Mask: NORMAL
Processing of Scene Change: FRAME BLENDING
Reduce Resolution: DO NOT REDUCE ( dont use this unless if you prefer more SMOOTH than Quality )

Tell me how it is going for ya.

Greetings.

  • MAG79
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Re: Fixing incorrect framerates (ReClock?)

kriiiim
The episode is 23.976fps and i get a bit of judder after always a few seconds when played at 60 hrz interpolation
Give a link to such video, please.
May be it is telecined video. I will take a look.

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Re: Fixing incorrect framerates (ReClock?)

HI Maken:) thank you for your support!
The solving was not major fixing but it dit give me a little more judderfree pictures but the judder is still there.

Hi MAG79:) Here is the link for the episode http://www.megaupload.com/?d=EA1CK6Y2
i was just wondering about if the movie is encoded to 23.976fps and i want 60 fps out of it will it not get a little bit of judder?
Thank you guys for your help, i realy appreciate it!

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Re: Fixing incorrect framerates (ReClock?)

Thank you MAG79, your suggestion of setting SVP to 2.5x and ReClock to 25 -> 24 was really helpful. It didn't work at first, but disabling the "blend to refresh rate" setting did the trick. I appreciate that you read and understood the question instead of just telling me to blindly change all my settings. As promised, I have put in a donation. :-)


Kriim, I have two suggestions:

One, you might try looking at an app like gpu-z in addition to resource manager to see if you are just running out of CPU/GPU resources.

But also, if you are using madVR along with an NVidia display adapter, you may be one of the many people who are having judder or skipping, especially in combination with 60 fps video. There are two things you can try here:

   1) switch from madVR to VMR-9 (renderless) and see if that helps.
   2) most people seem to have luck going into the madVR settings and disabling "present several frames in advance" in the "Exclusive Mode" settings.

This seems to be the result of a change in behavior in recent NVidia drivers (the last few months). No one is certain whether the fault lies with NVidia or madVR, but there is some kind of bad interaction.

I am still able to use madVR with perfect video output as long as I make the settings change I described.


PS: I don't want to start a debate, and I am thankful for your help with DirectShow, but it is technically correct to refer to video using Hz. A frame of video is a (reconstructed, filtered) sample. It is standard practice to describe sample rates using the Hz unit, and in fact any periodic phenomenon can be described using Hz. If you look at the writings of Jim Blinn on computer graphics and video, he uses expressions like "29.97 Hz frame rate" constantly. (I'm not sure there's any higher authority than Blinn.) Frame rate is a frequency like any other.

  • MAG79
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Re: Fixing incorrect framerates (ReClock?)

sarah

Thank you for donation. Your name are added to SVP Credits page. wink

May be it is only in Russian. So accepted to measure video framerate in fps but screen refreshrate in Hz.
hmm

kriiiim
I just watched your movie. The movements are smooth. I saw only "anime-judder". It must be so. You can check frame drops by tearing test (Ctrl-Shift-T). The line should move evenly.
Anime-judder is due to the change of image is not in every frame.

If tearing test shows judder at the line too then you need to setup your system.

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Re: Fixing incorrect framerates (ReClock?)

MAG79
I have tested the tearing test and i get judderfree movement on the first clip wich is alchemist then when i try using the second clip sengoku basara i get the line kind of jumping forward like micro movements so not completely judderfree... maybe with some drivers of ati? When i use madvr i cant enable gpu-acceleration on svp the window shuts down and i get c++ library problem...(get the error message only when trying to enable in 720p or 1080p or when set Quarter pixel in menu in svp) Im gonna try to do a propper uninstalltion of svp and ffdshow and all of the compenents i use and try a different graphic driver maybe that will solv the problem?
Hardware
quad i7
ati HD 5870 driver 11.8
windows 7 ultimate

Sara
I did like you said but did not work on my ati maybe only on nvda? thx any way

P.S
I just dont understand why the change is not in every frame (if causing the trouble) when 640:480 works smooth and not 720p and it is the same drawing tecnology they use to produce the anime.. sad  sad

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Re: Fixing incorrect framerates (ReClock?)

kriiiim
C++ error appears because of out of memory. I recommend to use half-pixel instead of quarter-pixel.

About amine and framerate. It is separate topic. It is necessary to look to individual details in each anime video-file.