26 Reply by Fanty1972 (edited by Fanty1972 16-12-2013 17:54:13)

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

@Lt_Welkin:

This may sound funny, but .... is SVP started and running in the background?  big_smile
I get a similiar effect (MPC claims that video runs at 120FPS, but full screen does produce thousands of dropped frames in relatively short time (window does not) if I forgot to start SVP and FFDShow forgot to switch of Avisynth without SVP.
So, Avisynth+Reclock running, SVP does not.

And I would not overclock the GPU for madVR, its not worth it (if we assume that OC reduces the lifeexpectancy of the GPU by 50% (if permanently @ OC) (and GPU-developers say GPUs work 4-6 years at default settings before all the heatingup/cooling down destoys them) while most people are unable to see the difference between madVR and EVR-CP. Only between windows default and EVR-CP do most people recognise.

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

Yes, SVP is running. It works fine at windowed but once I go any form of fullscreen, I get dropped frames. I actually got it to only drop 2-4 frames every 3 seconds or so at one point, but it was still noticeable and I decided to hold off on using motion interpolation until I meet up with my friend again and I can basically just get spoonfed/copy paste his settings. If his laptop can run it, I'm pretty sure mine can. Then again, the only thing on his laptop is what's necessary for using svp and madvr.

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

Lt_Welkin
once I go any form of fullscreen, I get dropped frames
Lets test your GPU weakness.
Try values DXVA2 or Bilinear of settings: chroma upscaling, image upscaling, image downscaling (madVR settings - scaling algorithms).

Show your madVR statistic in fullscreen mode (ctrl-j hotkey) if issue still there.
And show SVP additional information (SVP tray menu - Information - Additional information).

29 Reply by Lt_Welkin (edited by Lt_Welkin 17-12-2013 08:07:09)

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

Last processed file parameters:
Filename: [Refrain Subs] Little Busters! ~Refrain~ - 04 (720p Hi10P) [6B6E1A52].mkv
Frame size and frame rate: 1280x720 pixels, 23.976 fps
After crop: 1272x712 pixels

Detected screen parameters
Screen size and refresh rate: 1600x900 pixels, 59.855 Hz

Video smoothing info
Smooth factor: 5:2
Resulting video frame rate: 59.94 fps
ﾏⅲ・ 褸鞣瑙・ ・蓿魵: 59.855 fps

Selected profile: 1280x720@24

Profile settings of video processing
[ExMethod=MSmoothFps_0]        Frames interpolation mode: Uniform (max smoothness)
[ExAlgo=2]            SVP shader: 2. Sharp (for anime)
[ExMulti=MON]            Target frame rate: To screen refresh rate (default)
[ExBlockSize=32x32:0]        Motion vectors grid: 32 px. Large 0
[ExRecalc=0:0]            Decrease grid step: Disabled (default)
[TypeDist=Hex:-6:SAD]        Search radius: Small and fast
[ExPel=0]            Motion vectors precision: Two pixels
[Badsad=1000:-24]        Wide search: Average (default)
[ExSadml=0]            Artifacts masking: Disabled (default)
[ExBlend=false]            Processing of scene changes: Repeat frame (default)
[ExDwnResize=0]            Decrease frame size: Disabled (default)
[ExConvertFps=true]        Blend frames to screen refresh rate:true

Settings by menu
[svp_libflowgpu=1]        GPU-acceleration (OpenCL): true
[ExThreads=0]            Processing threads: Auto
[StereoMode=0]            Stereo mode (3D): Plain 2D
[HandCrop=p4:4:4:4]        Frame crop: By four pixels on each side [4:4:4:4]
[Borderlight=None]        Outer lighting: Disabled
[EnableHWBorderlight=0]        Use SVPlight: false
[HWBorderlightSettings=0]    SVPlight settings...: false
[VDelay=0]            Video delay: 0 ms
[ExDemo=0]            Demonstration mode: false
[ExTearingTest=0]        Tearing test: false
[EFrameDoubling=0]        Variable frame rate repair: false
[StopSmoothDelayOnRewind=-1]    Turn off on seek: Don't turn off


Statistics: http://i.imgur.com/qYmbH2f.png

Alright, so basically, I got 0 dropped/delayed frames in fullscreen mode (exclusive) when using bilinear.

I originally use Jinc 3 taps for both chroma and image upscaling w/ anti ringing filter. For image downscaling, I used Catmull-Rom w/ Anti-ringing and Linear Light. I know Jinc is not the best processing code for performance but I do remember at one point, it was stable with SVP and Jinc 3 taps. I guess my gpu is getting weaker...



Here is a clear difference between Madvr: Smooth motion, Jinc 3 Taps and Catmull Rom[image downscaling] WITHOUT SVP (1st screenshot) vs Madvr: Bilinear settings WITH SVP (2nd screenshot)
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/53162

I think what I might end up doing is changing between SVP and madvr Jinc 3 taps depending on the anime I'm watching.
If the anime has a lot of eye candy (Clannad i,e), not so much heavy/fast paced action, I will use Jinc 3 Taps and Smooth motion.
If the anime has a lot of action (Gundam, Black Lagoon i,e), I will use SVP and Madvr Billinear.

I just really dislike the Billinear settings and how they just wash away quality (it could just be ffdshow and SVP not allowing me to view 10bit but I don't think 8bit-10bit makes a big difference as much as Jinc 3 taps to Bilinear).

Is bilinear the worst quality/bad quality compared to Jinc? In what order should I test the limits of my GPU (Jinc being the top/hardest to run w/ SVP)?

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

Lt_Welkin

Blend frames to screen refresh rate:true

Why you do that? hmm
Uncheck this option. I think we will remove this option in next version of SVP because it is usual user's mistake to enable it.

Screen size and refresh rate: 1600x900 pixels, 59.855 Hz
Resulting video frame rate: 59.94 fps

Just use ReClock to sync video framerate to monitor refresh rate. In this case it will be the best solution.

ﾏⅲ・ 褸鞣瑙・ ・蓿魵: 59.855 fps

Thank you. It is lost of translation. Will be fixed in next version.

my gpu is getting weaker
Maybe. Can help turning off energy saving features in your GPU driver settings.

Is bilinear the worst quality/bad quality compared to Jinc?
Yes. Quality of bilinear is worst. DXVA2 is better than Bilinear. Jinc is better than DXVA2.

Lt_Welkin
should I test the limits of my GPU
Yes. You can do it to get more quality with no dropped frames.
Remember: different frame resolution make different GPU load when GPU shaders (Jinc etc.) are used.

31 Reply by Lt_Welkin (edited by Lt_Welkin 17-12-2013 08:45:07)

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

The screenshot comparison showed me the difference haha.

I think I'm already using ReClock with the appropriate settings.  http://i.imgur.com/0IrgWLf.png

Also, are there any other better ones besides DXVA2? (Catmull Rom, SoftCubic, Mitchell-Netravali, Bicubic, Lanczos, Spline)?
Can't check DXVA2 with Chroma upscaling, only with Image upscaling and downscaling (and I've been told to use Catmull-Rom for image downscaling with Anti-Ringing & Linear Light).

If I use DXVA2, do I need to go to LAV Video Decoder and select DXVA2 or NVIDIA CUVID Hardware acceleration as well? Or I only need to change the scaling algorithms in Madvr?

Really appreciate the help! Even if I'm not able to achieve Jinc 3 with SVP on, it really allowed me to explore and learn more about SVP and MadVR at the same time. At some point, I'll find the limit with SVP  big_smile

Edit: Managed to get Chroma upscaling to Jinc 3 tap WITHOUT dropped frames! I can even use smooth motion and get 0 dropped frames  big_smile. Going to keep pushing and experimenting. Saw an
increase in picture quality compared to billinear at least haha.

http://i.imgur.com/HLv1qmj.png

Nvm, that should answer my question in how I should test the limit of my GPU and SVP!

Final Results In:
Jinc 3 Taps for both Chroma and Image Upscaling 10 bit w/o SVP http://i.imgur.com/eedQyxf.jpg
Jinc 3 Taps: Chroma... Lanczos 3 Taps: Image Upscaling w/ SVP http://i.imgur.com/VRx09yL.jpg

All the other tested configurations yielded less quality than Lanczos 3 Taps. With Lanczos 3 taps for Image Upscaling, I get the best quality I can without dropping any frames. If I use the next highest (Jinc 3 Taps) for image upscaling, I drop frames.

I finally got my optimized settings! Thank you all to contributed and stayed with me for the whole thread!  big_smile

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

http://www.abload.de/img/alldajg4.gif

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

I can even use smooth motion and get 0 dropped frames"

You dont need smooth motion, because you have something superior: SVP

"Smooth motion" is comparable to "Blend frames to screen refresh rate:true" and both are inferior to real frame inerpolation like SVP makes possible.

SVPs blend to screen refresh for example is more for:
You have a 120Hz monitor but your mashine is too weak for real 120FPS frame interpolation, so you interpolate to 60 and then blend to 120. It makes no sense to real inerpolate and fake blend both to the same value and you dont need fake blend stuff like madVR "smooth motion" if you have real interpolation like SVP.

34 Reply by Lt_Welkin (edited by Lt_Welkin 17-12-2013 09:23:50)

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

OH I see. Alright, makes sense. So I should turn off smooth motion while I'm using SVP as well as "Blend frames to screen refresh rate.

Well, like I said. Got my optimal settings; I guess Jinc 3 taps for image upscaling is too much for my system to handle, but according to the chart, the next best "Lanczos 3 taps" is something I can handle with literally 0 dropped frames. Time to finally enjoy 60~ fps anime  big_smile


Edit: On a side note, I always notice  artifacts or wavy outlines on some characters that are running or moving... but the amount of times I saw that while testing for 20 minutes of footage was only 1 time for 3 seconds (and it was barely noticeable). I think I'll keep my settings this way for now~


Also... I actually changed image upscaling to Lanczos 4 Taps and got even clearer image! (Looks quite similar to original 10bit Jinc 3 Taps image!)

Original 10bit [Image upscaling] Jinc 3 Taps Image (no SVP): http://i.imgur.com/eedQyxf.jpg
8bit [Image upscaling] Lanczos 4 Taps Image (w/ SVP): http://i.imgur.com/qaRAv1J.jpg

Why, you even could argue it looks better with Lanczos 4 Taps than with Jinc 3 Taps! (And somehow Jinc makes me drop frames unlike Lanczos).

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

Lt_Welkin
Can't check DXVA2 with Chroma upscaling
It is normal. I can't too.

do I need to go to LAV Video Decoder and select DXVA2 or NVIDIA CUVID Hardware acceleration as well?
No. It is DXVA2 post-processing and it can be used separately from DXVA2 decoding.

I finally got my optimized settings!
My congratulations!

36 Reply by Lt_Welkin (edited by Lt_Welkin 17-12-2013 11:56:36)

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

Also, is it okay if I ask a final question? I know it's not entirely related but I don't want to make another entire thread...

I've noticed on playback, reclock is "yellow" in my tray icons. I heard that yellow means it's not working 100%.

http://i.imgur.com/0IrgWLf.png Video Settings. I left advanced settings unchecked except for give player priority.

http://imgur.com/Pg5DZ4g

I don't get reported drop frames but if I'm not supposed to use SVP+ madVR's smooth motion, instead, I should use SVP+ reclock... how do I get it to "work" or at least turn green on playback?

Wow, I clicked on the ReClock Tray Icon (2nd picture link) and turned it from 24fps to 59.940. Now, it's green!
Do I need to do something for the settings in the first picture link I sent you? Or leaving it at 24fps is okay since it's green?

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

Lt_Welkin
You did right when pointed framerate manually.

http://www.svp-team.com/forum/misc.php?item=2948

Green - good. Red - bad.

In ideal ReClock must determine video framerate automatically itself. You need to set autoload in ReClock to more stable framerate detection.

If you setup ReClock right then you will see BIG number how rarely frames will be dropped/repeated (one in hour/day/month/year - the best value).

http://www.svp-team.com/forum/misc.php?item=2949

or at least turn green on playback?
Green tray icon is sign of work. Usually it is right work if framerate was detected automatically but not garantee of right work when you point it manually.

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ReClock_props_Lt_Welkin.png 28.1 kb, 697 downloads since 2013-12-17 

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

http://i.imgur.com/dsKY2NS.png

And yes, now my video stat is normal and says 1 frame repeat/drop every 2 days or so. It is also green now. Does this mean I am fine?  big_smile

And if I'm not, how do I set "autoload on reclock". Usually, the second I play a video, reclock is in my tray icons so I think that's what you mean.

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

Lt_Welkin
Does this mean I am fine?
Yes. In this case and for this file.

how do I set "autoload on reclock"
If ReClock loads without any dialogs in the tray on video open then you already setup it right.
I don't know clearly all conditions to successful framerate autodetection by ReClock. Usually it depend on DS filters loaded in player. Successful autodection must looks like this:

http://www.svp-team.com/forum/misc.php?item=2950

It is 59 fps video on my 120 Hz monitor. SVP multiplied framerate twice and ReClock encrease speed audio and video from 118 to 120 fps (by 2%).

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

Alright, last question tongue

It says for you, -0HZ audio correction.
Any reason mine is like -120 hz?

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

Lt_Welkin
-0HZ audio correction
I don't know exactly. It is ReClock details. You can read it in file ReClock\Readme.rtf.
I see at original and current audio clock: 44100 and 44847. It is right values. Just my 2% of speed increasing.

In your case math is working: 48000 - 47881 = 119
In my case - not.

42 Reply by Metagondria (edited by Metagondria 17-12-2013 13:56:12)

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

Lt.welkin..

Have you ever tried and checked playback whitout using reclock... ?

Tried using REclock myself in tandem with windvd and ... errrr... twos NO SHOW !!!   Reclock just hang and shutdown upon windvd start... yep latest revision 1.8.8.x....

Also.... in madVR use setting Smooth playback = alway's....   I know some one else here has suggested to do the opposite ... but in my case when turning that offf in madVR ... SVP isnt playing so smooth anymore ...
but i have an critical eye for these things  big_smile  !!!


Looks you got ur work solving this !!

Good luck charm . welkin...


p.s: Thanks for your thoughts about my probs i have had in the "Nerve tick/spasm" topic of mine .. chortles...

cheers,

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

Metagondria
in madVR use setting Smooth playback = alway's
It is harmful advice. I don't agree with you. I always disable madVR Smooth motion.

44 Reply by Metagondria (edited by Metagondria 17-12-2013 14:01:23)

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

MAG79 wrote:

Metagondria
in madVR use setting Smooth playback = alway's
It is harmful advice. I don't agree with you. I always disable madVR Smooth motion.

Well thats odd.... not because you dont agree with me... but rather why you dont agree with me ?

But atleast .. we agreee to disagreeee .. right?  big_smile

Realy... turning it of ... yield better results for me .... err... let me check that out again... and again.... i'll pay attention to that !!


Thanks for your thoughts maggie79,

cherriepoopers,

45 Reply by Metagondria (edited by Metagondria 17-12-2013 14:12:34)

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

@maggie79

Am  i seeing this correct and are u using my video i have uploaded as an text book example back there up there ↑  big_smile   i.e (Downloads\metagondria\The good stuf... )

i see u underlined the audio portion of the vidclip... but the truth is i only captured video material... sound = off in fraps hehe since the audio wosnt in question and had not any purpose..

Also.. weird that reclock reads my vidclip as only 1077 and interlaced.. unless it doesnt only reclock but also resize your playback on the fly !!

Lol... iam flattered .. realy...  neutral

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

Metagondria
why you dont agree with me ?
Because to get more smoothness is better way to interpolate new frames with SVP than use Frame blending via SVP Blend frames option or madVR smooth motion option.
Then you will get clear sharp pictures without double contours.

u using my video i have uploaded
Yes. Sorry for use without your opinion. It is for education purposes only. wink

sound = off in fraps
Sound is on in uploaded file. Just one audio track with silence.

only 1077 and interlaced
1072. ffdShow tells such SAR when your file is playing. SVP writes about it in additional info:


Detected screen parameters
Screen size and refresh rate: 1920x1080 pixels, 120 Hz
After aspect ratio correction: 1920x1072 pixels (SAR=135/136)

SVP does not resize but video renderer does due to SAR value pointed in video stream.
About interlace maybe it is incorrect detected by ReClock. I don't know at this moment.

@maggie79
Good joke big_smile

http://www.svp-team.com/forum/misc.php?item=2951

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47 Reply by Metagondria (edited by Metagondria 17-12-2013 17:11:43)

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

MAG79 wrote:

Because to get more smoothness is better way to interpolate new frames with SVP than use Frame blending via SVP Blend frames option or madVR smooth motion option.
Then you will get clear sharp pictures without double contours.

errr.. iam not kiddin about this mag .... the playback is only MAX SMOOTHIE when using madVR smooth motion options;.. cant explain why .. but tis  happening over here currently as we speak !!
Don't get me wrong... its very smooth already with unifrom selection... but with madvr smoothness in tandem... its TAD BIT MORE BETTEr... NOT BY MUCH .. but theres room for improvement mag... neutral

MAG79 wrote:

Yes. Sorry for use without your opinion. It is for education purposes only. wink

No nO no... no need to ask my permision...  The video wos made public anyway.... so its up to me to mentioned that its for private parts use only ...
Nah.. forget about it  big_smile ....

U get always exclusive material from metagondria mag ... for you to do whatever you pleases...  neutral

MAG79 wrote:

Sound is on in uploaded file. Just one audio track with silence.

Yeah that... because there must be atleast 1 audio track in recode... no way arround it... but the original capture is made whitout SOUND... well in fRAps sound capture is totaly OFF ...
Else you would have hear him breath through that pen of his you know  big_smile

MAG79 wrote:

@maggie79
Good joke big_smile

http://www.svp-team.com/forum/misc.php?item=2951

Ah... and thEre is lil maggie... so much she has grown....  to be king of the hill .. → last pictar.. to the right  lol


oh and mag... on a side note.... i get regular an yellow "invalid script" warning in mpc → black screen as title/root menu to choose from  big_smile  !!

Though... svp isnt reporting /warning anything unusuall...
dunno what to make of it!!

EDIT : Oh almost forget.... now i get HUGE frame DrOPS in Window mode... but not in FULL SCREEN fortunately ..  just the opposite of what wilkens has to endure LOL  hmm  hmm  !!   

EDIT 2: ADD to that ↑ .. Video player memory Leak warning too now for the first time  hmm  FTW !! 
Well , first thing i tried is changed the setting back to default in the file overide.js  ... but errr.. allas ... so it must be something else ...!

cheers

48 Reply by Metagondria (edited by Metagondria 17-12-2013 20:04:33)

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

Yep THIS UP THERE ↑ ↑ ... have found a sollution to the frame drop both in window & fullscreen mode ...

DEFENITELY something going on with the way external filters work in tandem with mpc-hc .....   

I dont have dropp / delay frames anymore .. despite the high demanding setting in svp !!!

...

so Welkins .. if you read this... 2 words  → eXTERNAL filters ← defenitely worth to play with ...

also.... doing the slightes thing like summon menu or other mouse activity or switch from full screen to window will cause dropps to i have noticed !!
But thats usuall temporarely in my case... everything gets in sync back after a sec or so..

And or NOT UNIMPORTANT ... → SErvices / tasks running in th BAckground (TASK MANAGER is your friend) ←  or even better processlasso is a neat application for prioritizing cpu, mem, I/O and selecting cpu affinity and so much more...

VEry neat programm too Proccesslasso it calls ...  neutral  And best thing of all... you can use it FREE or buy it ... 


EDIT:  Yess... To much video filters will cause framedrops aswell for SURE ...  I had boths FFDshow Video filter + FFDshow Raw video filter selected to prefer....  SO, had to go ..  So i choose to keep → ONLY ← FFdshow Raw filter to run everything ...

No LAV video decoder needed no FFdshow video decoder needed ... just RAW HEAT chortles..


i choose ffdshow because else you wont get the quick settings tab in system tray to set additional filters like  sharpen or deinterlacing for example ...   

And since i got rid of the framedrops both in window & fullscreen mode... i dont get to see the invalid script error anymore !!..  Coincidence  hmm  ?

voila ..n o more drop outs...

EDIT 2: WauW.... unreal.... So... appearantly you do need LAV video DEcoder in tandem with RAw video layer ..... else i got frame drops... AGAIN ... Serious... leee?

So and AGAIN 2 KEYWORDS → EXTERNAL & FILTERS ←  hmm


hmm.... weird one this one.... dropped frames in window mode .. but NONE in fullscreen 1920x1080 60P  ... hmm FTW !!

Playing with motion vector grid and setting that to default will make frame drop go away to in window mode...

But what ever SETTING i choose .. it doesnt seem to affect FULLSCREEN performance !!

MY BET is ON → Exclusive Mode in madVR renderer ←  ... I garantee it.. that definitely has something to do with it too...


FTW indeed ... shit..excuse my language

Oh well.. for the better i say...  SURE woudnt want to have it the other way arround lol....


LAST EDIT but not the LEAST (README)  Yep.... Renderer that is chosen has difenitely something to do with the frame drops wilkenson.... (or others that struggle with the same mayhem)   and not → so much ←SVP me thinks...

Just checked that theory myself and changed from madVr to EVR Custom...  and voila ...   NO more frame drops both in window & fullscreen REGARDLESS of which SVP profile settings.... 

check this OUT ↓  big_smile

http://s17.postimg.org/no3pccq0b/framedrops.jpg


Hope that works for u... it atleast clears up some things for me...


cheers,

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

Yea, thanks for the info! I already found my optimal settings and maxed out my settings with madvr. I get 0 dropped frames with EVR Custom, but I get less quality than when I use Madvr. I just had to dumb down some of the scaling algorithms and I get 0 dropped frames regardless of fullscreen regular, exclusive, windowed, etc~  big_smile

After this thread, I kinda understand thanks to all that contributed how SVP and Madvr work (at least enough to slightly fool around with it)~ Thanks again all!

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Re: Dropped Frames in Fullscreen MadVR/SVP

Just checked that theory myself and changed from madVr to EVR Custom...  and voila ...   NO more frame drops both in window & fullscreen REGARDLESS of which SVP profile settings....

Of course. Its because EVR cant do anything better than bicubic scaling and, even if madVR is set to bicubic scaling aswell, it uses twice the GPU load of EVR. At least for me. (something like 50% GPU load with madVR and 25% GPU load with EVR with identical scaling method chosed)

But EVR has other issues for me (strange doubled tearing test line), thats why I use madVR.