1 Topic by Mystery (edited by Mystery 18-03-2014 03:32:37)

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Topic: Feedback on SVP

I was looking online for a way to do "frame blending" on slow motion videos, and found SVP. I have to say I'm really impressed about it! It really does greatly improve the quality of videos. At 60fps, the eye can't make the difference with real life. Also, with "Full lighting", the video feels much more vivid, and when I turn it off, it feels... flat. So I turn it back on.

A few comments though.

1. It doesn't work for slow motion. It works perfectly when playing videos at regular speed, but if I set the play speed to 50% or 25%, it delivers the frames in chunks and does not look smooth at all. With Media Player Classic.

2. Lighting effects really do seem to make the image stand out as if it was real. However, it makes the video smaller by adding a thick border of light around it. Is that really necessary? It's a complete waste of visual space. I'd love to trim out that part if possible so that the video can appear full-screen.

3. It would be great if it would integrate into more players. Such as Windows Media Player, VLC and others. Now by using WPC + SVP, there's a whole bunch of tray icons appearing, which I don't think are necessary either. In Windows Media Player, it seems to integrate for "some" file formats while it doesn't for most others(?)

This is definitely a piece of code that should be embedded into every modern video player!

  • MAG79
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Re: Feedback on SVP

Mystery
Thank you for feedback. cool

1. 0.5x speed in MPC is non standard slow motion. wink SVP not supports that. You are the first who telling us about such method of slomo in player. We can improve SVP to make such slomo smoother.

2. Use 'Fill black bars only' instead of 'Full lighting'. Image size will remain as big as possible.

3. SVP compatible to many players (PotPlayer, another players /in russian/), but not with VLC.

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Re: Feedback on SVP

P.S. About No 1.
Slow Motion and SVP. Suddenly it works. big_smile
I use MPC-HC 1.7.3 and  internal LAV filters as decoder. All modes with low playback speed are work to me with great smoothness: 0.50x, 0.25x, 0.13x. wink

Thank you to point me to that SloMo-in-RealTime method. Awesome! It is natural 'Easter egg' in SVP!!! smile

4 Reply by Mystery (edited by Mystery 24-03-2014 04:42:10)

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Re: Feedback on SVP

I'm using MPC-HC that comes with SVP, which is v1.6.8, with default options + madVR. Slow motion really doesn't work. If I play at 50%, frame rate drops to about 30fps and the motion is very jerky.

Furthermore, and take this as a compliment... I tried rendering the same effects with Adobe Premiere and SVP does a much better job. Adobe premiere does mostly Frame Blending, and even the Re:Vision Twixtor plugin doesn't do nearly as good of a job as SVP. You might want to consider selling the algorithms as Adobe Premiere or After Effects plugin tongue And yours doesn't require any configuration whatsoever, and does it live.

It really would be nice to be able to use this for slow motion. Currently the only player that does that properly is VLC but we'd have a much better result with SVP.

Btw, running SVP + madVR with Jinc scaling really looks stunning! It brings a whole new life to old VCDs and YouTube low-quality FLV videos. Running both on my laptop screen works fine, but unfortunately, running both on a 1080p TV is too much (twice the amount of pixels to calculate!)

The only other problem is that it is very unstable and crashes often. Either SVP crashes, or MPC crashes. Especially when seeking. Not sure who is to blame for that.

Then, running SVP + madVR is complicated to configure so it's only for tech-savvy people. Both have to be configured in different places, and the ideal configuration will vary based on whether I project it on my laptop or on an external TV, and based on whether I'm watching a full HD video, a 720p YouTube video or a 288 VCD.

Also, playing blue-ray quality videos doesn't work well in MPC, even with SVP off, it lags, skips and gets off sync with the audio. So I guess you can't do much about it. They play in Windows Media Player just fine.

  • MAG79
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Re: Feedback on SVP

Mystery
MPC-HC that comes with SVP, which is v1.6.8, with default options + madVR. Slow motion really doesn't work
I know. Soon SVP 3.1.6 will be released. Full pack will contain MPC-HC 1.7.3 and good worked slow motion. wink

SVP crashes, or MPC crashes. Especially when seeking
Yes. This problem can be solved. Choose another value of setting "Turn off on seek" in SVP tray menu. I recommend "Don't turn off". Crashes will stop but you can see interesting effect 'frames from the past' after seeking in first 1-2 seconds.

SVP + madVR is complicated to configure
Leave all settings at their defaults. I think it is good choice and not complicated. smile

blue-ray quality videos doesn't work well in MPC, even with SVP off, it lags, skips and gets off sync with the audio
What your PC configuration? I think it is just weak PC for bluray.

6 Reply by Mystery (edited by Mystery 24-03-2014 05:20:19)

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Re: Feedback on SVP

Cool, can't wait for the new version!

My laptop is quad-core i7 with Radion HD7600M. I got 2 types of files that are 15000kbps. One is in TP format; I guess someone recorded them straight from blue-ray or something. The others are encoded in MP4. Neither of these are playing well in MPC but they play fine in either WMP or VLC.

madVR default settings are not optimal for upscaling algorithm, so I have to change that.

Btw, I have a bunch of old VCDs from Thailand that are impossible to purchase or find anymore, and I'm planning to make them available on YouTube. It would be great if there was a way to re-encode them in the way they are showing up on my screen with SVP and madVR! (although YouTube doesn't really take 60fps; I think it "can" in an ugly way that doesn't sync sound well)

How about this (if you've got spare time): a tool that re-encodes videos...
- slow motion
- crop black borders
- stretch with Jinc/madVR
- encodes as 60fps file that YouTube can accept, perhaps compensating for the audio sync problem that goes with the 60fps hack
That would be a cool encoder :-) and greatly enhance the quality of low-quality videos. The main problem with most video encoding software is that they don't interpret video files properly. If you can take the output we're getting here and send it to an encoder, that would beat anything else out there.

  • MAG79
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Re: Feedback on SVP

Mystery
can't wait for the new version!
You can use final SVPMgr fix and MPC-HC 1.7.3. Install it manually. It will be almost SVP next version wink

quad-core i7 with Radion HD7600M
Can you pass SVPmark test and send results to our online database?

madVR default settings are not optimal for upscaling algorithm
Optimal for what? You fill leak of quality or leak of performance?

Youtube service don't support 60 fps. Only 30 fps max supported. You can save SVP results but I don't know the way how to save madVR results. Maybe NVIDIA shadow play is good solution to you.

- slow motion
It already done

- crop black borders
It already done

- stretch with Jinc/madVR
It madVR (or another renderer) issue

- encodes as 60fps
Use any instruction. For example this one from Subjunk

compensating for the audio sync problem that goes with the 60fps hack
No hack needed. All works fine.

  • Thanks: 33

Re: Feedback on SVP

Actually there's a way to upload 60fps videos, although it's a ugly hack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsBXYHfYgmI

madVR uses Lanczos upscaling by default, which greatly amplifies the noise of low-quality videos. Jinc is a better alternative, ever better with the anti-ring filter. If the computer can take it. It really depends what the computer can take.

I ran SVPmark and sent my results.

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Re: Feedback on SVP

Mystery
Lanczos upscaling by default, which greatly amplifies the noise of low-quality videos. Jinc is a better
Try nnedi3 doubling in madVR 0.87.7. You will be surprised. see animation from Russian thread.

Source / Jinc3 / NNEDI3
http://www.svp-team.com/forum/misc.php?item=3009

I ran SVPmark and sent my results
Thank you. As you can see your system got 91.35 fps in "good" subtest and 68.87 fps in "high" subtest. So you system is powerfull enough to compute smoothness in real time. You just need to adjust player's / splitter's / decoder's / renderer's / monitor's settings to get flawless smooth playback of blu-rays.

I need more details to help you. Start from SVP Performance graphs window screenshot while bluray playback.

  • Thanks: 33

Re: Feedback on SVP

Jus ran another test with high quality videos. MPC + SVP is working fine. However, if madVR is enabled, then it lags, even without SVP.

So it is madVR that can't keep up with such high quality videos. I also found it to lag on 1080p output when processing 1080p files... which shouldn't need any scaling at all!

11 Reply by Mystery (edited by Mystery 24-03-2014 22:47:24)

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Re: Feedback on SVP

I downloaded the latest version of madVR. The new NNEDI3 scaling looks really interesting! Unfortunately, it causes a blue screen crash & reboot on my computer!

With the new version of madVR, one of the 2 HD videos is now playing fine. Here's a screenshot of the 2nd video.

Post's attachments

VideoLag.jpg 269.03 kb, 238 downloads since 2014-03-24 

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Re: Feedback on SVP

Mystery
CPU usage 46% and SVP-Index 1x are good values. All must be work fine without lags.
Did you touch madVR settings? Then reset them to defaults.
NNEDI3 is not compatible to recent NVIDIA drivers. NVIDIA broke smth in it. Use NVidia 327.23 drivers (or older).

Look to your GPU load via GPU-Z.

Your screen size 1366x768?

  • Thanks: 33

Re: Feedback on SVP

I'm using a Radion, not NVidia. I'm using LeeKM's modded driver v13.250.0.0, which somehow offers better performance than Samsung's driver (which doesn't work in Windows 8.1)

Perhaps I should update to the latest version 13.351 ?
http://leekms.blogspot.mx/2014/03/amd-c … ision.html

GPU-Z gives this error when opening:
"Intel OpenCL driver bug detected, skipping OpenCL detection.
Please update your Intel OpenCL driver to re-enable this functionality."

Here's another screenshot with SVP closed. Only madVR is running.

Post's attachments

VideoLag2.jpg 266.07 kb, 254 downloads since 2014-03-24 

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Re: Feedback on SVP

Updated driver to 13.351. It still crashes with a blue screen.

So basically, NNEDI3 works great on high-end cards. Just not on NVidia or Radeon cards tongue

Yes I'm on 1366x768, except when I output onto the TV.

  • MAG79
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Re: Feedback on SVP

Mystery
I'm using a Radion, not NVidia
Oh, sorry. My fault. I saw '7600M', but not saw 'Radeon'. Radeon compatible to NNEDI3 with all versions of drivers.

Intel OpenCL driver bug detected, skipping OpenCL detection
It is not good. Is GPU-acceleration available in SVP? If not you need to reinstall video driver. Use Original full driver from AMD to get OpenCL to work.
Both madVR's NNEDI3 and SVP's GPU-acceleration use OpenCL.
Please run SVP 3.1\Utilities\CLInfo from programs menu. What it tells?

I output onto the TV
Do you know about second screen lags? If you want to see perfect picture when make TV primary screen or THE ONLY ONE screen in the system. Use Win-P to that purpose.

It is well known error of all renderers while they draw picture at secondary screen. It is DirectX issue.

GPU load 100% at your screenshot hmm
You need to reduce madVR settings. Your GPU is weak to perform all computations.

Re: Feedback on SVP

MAG79
Do you know about second screen lags?
I have a TV connected as an extended desktop with my monitor as primary screen. When I use MPC-HC I only open and view on the TV. Is this problematic?

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Re: Feedback on SVP

satori
Maybe no. Just test it yourself by tearing test on your TV. Ctrl-Win-T.
In many cases secondary screen have jerks on video.

18 Reply by satori (edited by satori 26-03-2014 02:44:10)

Re: Feedback on SVP

MAG79
Is NNEDI3 recommended for chroma upscaling? I can enable for image doubling but chroma upscaling makes my picture go green.

edit-
I can't make it work at full screen for image doubling either. I can play a DVD rip at it's actual size but scaling to 1920x1080 and the picture goes nearly black.

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Re: Feedback on SVP

satori
It is question to madVR'a author, madshi. You can read details and ask questions in madVR forum.

Re: Feedback on SVP

MAG79 wrote:

satori
It is question to madVR'a author, madshi. You can read details and ask questions in madVR forum.

Ok. I will research more.

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Re: Feedback on SVP

satori
picture goes nearly black
You have NVIDIA? Then use NVidia 327.23 drivers (or older)

Re: Feedback on SVP

MAG79 wrote:

satori
picture goes nearly black
You have NVIDIA? Then use NVidia 327.23 drivers (or older)

Rolled back to 327.23 and both are working now! Thank you! Now to evaluate... wink

  • Thanks: 33

Re: Feedback on SVP

Playing this video with SVP causes weird border issues; but only for this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2fU28Pehdc

I've seen that there is a way to create various profiles in madVR and write a script to select different settings for different videos. It's a bit complicated to setup but that might be required to get TV output working properly.

As for the very high quality video that was causing problems, it still lags with upscaling/downscaling set to "GPU Nearest Neighbor".

I have switchable graphics card. The OpenCL error was from Intel, so it wasn't talking about the Radeon card. GPU Acceleration works fine with SVP.

Here is the output from CLInfo

Number of platforms:                             1
  Platform Profile:                              FULL_PROFILE
  Platform Version:                              OpenCL 1.2 AMD-APP (1411.4)
  Platform Name:                                 AMD Accelerated Parallel Proces
sing
  Platform Vendor:                               Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
  Platform Extensions:                           cl_khr_icd cl_khr_d3d10_sharing
cl_khr_d3d11_sharing cl_khr_dx9_media_sharing cl_amd_event_callback cl_amd_offl
ine_devices cl_amd_hsa


  Platform Name:                                 AMD Accelerated Parallel Proces
sing
Number of devices:                               2
  Device Type:                                   CL_DEVICE_TYPE_GPU
  Device ID:                                     4098
  Max compute units:                             6
  Max work items dimensions:                     3
    Max work items[0]:                           256
    Max work items[1]:                           256
    Max work items[2]:                           256
  Max work group size:                           256
  Preferred vector width char:                   16
  Preferred vector width short:                  8
  Preferred vector width int:                    4
  Preferred vector width long:                   2
  Preferred vector width float:                  4
  Preferred vector width double:                 0
  Native vector width char:                      16
  Native vector width short:                     8
  Native vector width int:                       4
  Native vector width long:                      2
  Native vector width float:                     4
  Native vector width double:                    0
  Max clock frequency:                           600Mhz
  Address bits:                                  32
  Max memory allocation:                         536870912
  Image support:                                 Yes
  Max number of images read arguments:           128
  Max number of images write arguments:          8
  Max image 2D width:                            16384
  Max image 2D height:                           16384
  Max image 3D width:                            2048
  Max image 3D height:                           2048
  Max image 3D depth:                            2048
  Max samplers within kernel:                    16
  Max size of kernel argument:                   1024
  Alignment (bits) of base address:              2048
  Minimum alignment (bytes) for any datatype:    128
  Single precision floating point capability
    Denorms:                                     No
    Quiet NaNs:                                  Yes
    Round to nearest even:                       Yes
    Round to zero:                               Yes
    Round to +ve and infinity:                   Yes
    IEEE754-2008 fused multiply-add:             Yes
  Cache type:                                    None
  Cache line size:                               0
  Cache size:                                    0
  Global memory size:                            2147483648
  Constant buffer size:                          65536
  Max number of constant args:                   8
  Local memory type:                             Scratchpad
  Local memory size:                             32768
  Kernel Preferred work group size multiple:     64
  Error correction support:                      0
  Unified memory for Host and Device:            0
  Profiling timer resolution:                    1
  Device endianess:                              Little
  Available:                                     Yes
  Compiler available:                            Yes
  Execution capabilities:
    Execute OpenCL kernels:                      Yes
    Execute native function:                     No
  Queue properties:
    Out-of-Order:                                No
    Profiling :                                  Yes
  Platform ID:                                   5FC617D8
  Name:                                          Turks
  Vendor:                                        Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
  Driver version:                                1411.4 (VM)
  Profile:                                       FULL_PROFILE
  Version:                                       OpenCL 1.2 AMD-APP (1411.4)
  Extensions:                                    cl_khr_global_int32_base_atomic
s cl_khr_global_int32_extended_atomics cl_khr_local_int32_base_atomics cl_khr_lo
cal_int32_extended_atomics cl_khr_3d_image_writes cl_khr_byte_addressable_store
cl_khr_gl_sharing cl_ext_atomic_counters_32 cl_amd_device_attribute_query cl_amd
_vec3 cl_amd_printf cl_amd_media_ops cl_amd_media_ops2 cl_amd_popcnt cl_khr_d3d1
0_sharing cl_khr_dx9_media_sharing cl_amd_image2d_from_buffer_read_only cl_khr_s
pir


  Device Type:                                   CL_DEVICE_TYPE_CPU
  Device ID:                                     4098
  Max compute units:                             8
  Max work items dimensions:                     3
    Max work items[0]:                           1024
    Max work items[1]:                           1024
    Max work items[2]:                           1024
  Max work group size:                           1024
  Preferred vector width char:                   16
  Preferred vector width short:                  8
  Preferred vector width int:                    4
  Preferred vector width long:                   2
  Preferred vector width float:                  8
  Preferred vector width double:                 4
  Native vector width char:                      16
  Native vector width short:                     8
  Native vector width int:                       4
  Native vector width long:                      2
  Native vector width float:                     8
  Native vector width double:                    4
  Max clock frequency:                           2395Mhz
  Address bits:                                  32
  Max memory allocation:                         1073741824
  Image support:                                 Yes
  Max number of images read arguments:           128
  Max number of images write arguments:          8
  Max image 2D width:                            8192
  Max image 2D height:                           8192
  Max image 3D width:                            2048
  Max image 3D height:                           2048
  Max image 3D depth:                            2048
  Max samplers within kernel:                    16
  Max size of kernel argument:                   4096
  Alignment (bits) of base address:              1024
  Minimum alignment (bytes) for any datatype:    128
  Single precision floating point capability
    Denorms:                                     Yes
    Quiet NaNs:                                  Yes
    Round to nearest even:                       Yes
    Round to zero:                               Yes
    Round to +ve and infinity:                   Yes
    IEEE754-2008 fused multiply-add:             Yes
  Cache type:                                    Read/Write
  Cache line size:                               64
  Cache size:                                    32768
  Global memory size:                            2147483648
  Constant buffer size:                          65536
  Max number of constant args:                   8
  Local memory type:                             Global
  Local memory size:                             32768
  Kernel Preferred work group size multiple:     1
  Error correction support:                      0
  Unified memory for Host and Device:            1
  Profiling timer resolution:                    427
  Device endianess:                              Little
  Available:                                     Yes
  Compiler available:                            Yes
  Execution capabilities:
    Execute OpenCL kernels:                      Yes
    Execute native function:                     Yes
  Queue properties:
    Out-of-Order:                                No
    Profiling :                                  Yes
  Platform ID:                                   5FC617D8
  Name:                                                Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3630
QM CPU @ 2.40GHz
  Vendor:                                        GenuineIntel
  Driver version:                                1411.4 (sse2,avx)
  Profile:                                       FULL_PROFILE
  Version:                                       OpenCL 1.2 AMD-APP (1411.4)
  Extensions:                                    cl_khr_fp64 cl_amd_fp64 cl_khr_
global_int32_base_atomics cl_khr_global_int32_extended_atomics cl_khr_local_int3
2_base_atomics cl_khr_local_int32_extended_atomics cl_khr_3d_image_writes cl_khr
_byte_addressable_store cl_khr_gl_sharing cl_ext_device_fission cl_amd_device_at
tribute_query cl_amd_vec3 cl_amd_printf cl_amd_media_ops cl_amd_media_ops2 cl_am
d_popcnt cl_khr_d3d10_sharing cl_khr_spir cl_amd_svm

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Re: Feedback on SVP

Mystery
Playing this video with SVP causes weird border issues
You need to crop black borders at top and at bottom. Use custom crop option to do this.

  • Thanks: 33

Re: Feedback on SVP

Custom crop is something that has to be configured manually... I'm not going to tweak that setting for every video I play... There are other videos with black borders up and down, and the others don't have any problems playing.

This one plays just fine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXU3fI78mno