1 Topic by THX-UltraII (edited by THX-UltraII 06-05-2012 11:04:24)

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Topic: english manual for SVP

Is there a manual or wiki in English already for SVP 3.1.1?

I ve been using the Oppo BDP-93 for a few months but I really missed SVP so I just build a new HTPC just for SVP smile (i7 2600k + GTX 460 + 4gb ddr3 memory). Looking for smoothness but I am not looking for the best SMOOTHNESS but looking for the least artifacts. Content I m running is only 23,976fps full Blu-Ray rips. Play the content on my JVC projector. Output in nvidia control panel is 1920x1080p59.

So looking for a detailed explanation and recommended settings for:

Frames Interpolation Mode
SVP Shader
Motion Vectors Interpolation Mode
Motion Vectors Grid
Decrease Grid Step
Search Radius
Motion Vectors Precision
Wide Search

The rest of the settings (which are not so much smile) I know what they do.

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Re: english manual for SVP

THX-UltraII
Is there a manual or wiki in English already for SVP 3.1.1?
No. Only for SVPFlow.

So looking for a detailed explanation
I have not time for this now. Sorry. May be later.

recommended settings... looking for the least artifacts
Ok. I will try:

Frames Interpolation Mode: Adaptive. Auto switch between Uniform, 1m and 2m modes depend on complexity of motion.
SVP Shader: 2. Sharp. No duplicates of contours.
Motion Vectors Interpolation Mode: Bicubic. Better quality, bigger GPU load.
Motion Vectors Grid: 24 px. Large 2. Bigger value gives less fluidity and less artifacts.
Decrease Grid Step: Disabled. I think refine not usefull for minimize artifacts.
Search Radius: Small. Gives less fluidity and less artifacts.
Motion Vectors Precision: Half pixel. Better smoothness of slow motions.
Wide Search: Strongest. Repeat search with wide radius for bad vectors.

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Re: english manual for SVP

thanks, and what was the option 'blend frames to screen refresh rate' for?

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Re: english manual for SVP

THX-UltraII
Blend frames to screen refresh rate is worse setting for quality because do frame mixing with each other to get video framerate the sane as refresh rate. Frames become blured. But in some cases it can be smoother. For example, Framedoubling + Blend frames gives more smooth motion than Framedoubling only.

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Re: english manual for SVP

Ok, thxz.

Last night did some testing again and with the settings you provided I get lot of artifacts around moving people (not always but a lot). I tried the complicated SVP shader and it seems that this shader handles these people contours much better. Does this sound right? What does the complicated svp shader do exactly?

A SVP guide would really be great MAG79!

6 Reply by Jimmy03 (edited by Jimmy03 08-05-2012 07:51:13)

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Re: english manual for SVP

Hi THX, try these settings and let us know how the things are...

http://oi41.tinypic.com/16lahxy.jpg

In Wide search you can also try "strongest" and in Artifact masking "Above normal"

With the last two parameters i run lately i have tiny artifacts than not bother me.

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Re: english manual for SVP

THX-UltraII
complicated SVP shader
This shader uses four neighbor frames to create each new frame. It is the only shader that uses so much information.
In addition this shader applies occlusion mask to avoid contour artifacts.

A SVP guide would really be great MAG79!
Thank you for your vote. I'll try to find time and strength for it. smile

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Re: english manual for SVP

MAG79 wrote:

THX-UltraII
complicated SVP shader
This shader uses four neighbor frames to create each new frame. It is the only shader that uses so much information.
In addition this shader applies occlusion mask to avoid contour artifacts.

A SVP guide would really be great MAG79!
Thank you for your vote. I'll try to find time and strength for it. smile

Ok, so because of this occlusion mask I don t have contour artifacts? Are there other ways to avoid contour artifacts without using the complicated shader?

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Re: english manual for SVP

@Jimmy03, you recommend Uniform as Frame Interpolation Mode. I haven t had time to test (will do tonight) but I think this FI mode will cause more artifacts then Adaptive.

And why do you recommend 2 pixels at motion cector precision while MAG79 advises half pixel?

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Re: english manual for SVP

THX-UltraII wrote:

@Jimmy03, you recommend Uniform as Frame Interpolation Mode. I haven t had time to test (will do tonight) but I think this FI mode will cause more artifacts then Adaptive.

And why do you recommend 2 pixels at motion cector precision while MAG79 advises half pixel?


Good morning!

Well, from the very beginning i like much more the smoothness of Uniform mode than the Adaptive one even it has minor artifact difference for me.

I have spend hours & hours to see what is more accurate to my eye and between half & two pixels the winner for me is two pixel but with tiny differences smile

Did you try the setup i suggest you above? and what are the results?

11 Reply by THX-UltraII (edited by THX-UltraII 12-05-2012 17:45:04)

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Re: english manual for SVP

Jimmy03
the results with uniform smoothness gives too much visible artifacts on a big screen (projector) at certain scenes.
I ve tested over and over tonight and for an artifact free 2 hour movie I ve (again, just like with older versions of svp) picked 2M for now as smoothness (maybe 1M is an option but haven t found the right combination with 1M and other settings for artifact free picture).

I m now on:

2M
complicated
bicubic
to screen refresh rate
8 px. small o
by two with global refinement
large
half pixel
strongest
disabled
repeat frame
disabled

Re: english manual for SVP

SVP is all about smoothness so "2m" is not an option, it's basically just a fall back mode for complicated scenes and very-very slow systems. I doubt you can see any smooth effect with this.
"Adaptive" tries to choose between "uniform", "1m" and "2m" modes based on the actual scene.
May be we should add more options like "adaptive more smooth" and "adaptive less artifacts" in the future...

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Re: english manual for SVP

Chainik
thxz for your reply. Adaptive is no option for me with SVP because Adpative gives way too much artifacts on a 120'' projected image. 2M seems the only option that does not give me artifacts. Maybe I can try 1M again today with some setting combination to see if a artifact free image is possible.

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Re: english manual for SVP

May be we should add more options like "adaptive more smooth" and "adaptive less artifacts" in the future...

that would be great.

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Re: english manual for SVP

May be we should add more options like "adaptive more smooth" and "adaptive less artifacts" in the future...

can you maybe already tell me if you have plans for "adaptive more smooth" and "adaptive less artifacts" in the near future? Would love to test these smile

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Re: english manual for SVP

THX-UltraII
You can do it just now. Manually.
1. Choose Frame interpolation mode: adaptive.
2. Edit and save file override.js.
You need three params:
- smooth.scene.limits.m1,
- smooth.scene.limits.m2,
- smooth.scene.limits.scene

You can decrease and increase these values. See details at SVPflow plugin page.

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Re: english manual for SVP

MAG79 wrote:

THX-UltraII
You can do it just now. Manually.
1. Choose Frame interpolation mode: adaptive.
2. Edit and save file override.js.
You need three params:
- smooth.scene.limits.m1,
- smooth.scene.limits.m2,
- smooth.scene.limits.scene

You can decrease and increase these values. See details at SVPflow plugin page.

MAG, can you explain in detail how to do this (with a little step-by-step guide). thanks

18 Reply by vanden (edited by vanden 04-02-2014 21:27:51)

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Re: english manual for SVP

I also seeks to understand the options of SVP settings ...
I found some in these posts :
http://www.svp-team.com/wiki/Watching_anime
http://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=652
http://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=962
http://www.svp-team.com/wiki/Plugins:_SVPflow

Frames interpolation mode :

  • A balance between smoothness strength and artifacts visibility. Controls the number of interpolated frames in resulting video.

0 - uniform interpolation for maximum smoothness. For example for 24->60 conversion output will be: "1mmmm1mmmm...", where "1" stands for original frame and "m" for interpolated one.
1 - "1m" mode that gives "1mm1m1mm1m..." output in the above example => less artifacts at the cost of less smoothness.
2 - "2m" mode: "1m11m11m11..." => much less artifacts and much less smoothness.
3 - adaptive mode that switches between modes 0,1,2 based on overall vector field quality.

1 - one original frame
2 - twice repeated original frame
m - one motion interpolated (MI) frame

2m algo is sequence (2m2) like 3:2 pulldown, but third repeat of frame is MI-frame.
1m algo is sequence (1mm1m) like 3:2 pulldown, but second and third repeats of each frame is MI-frame.

1m50% algo is 1m algo, but every MI-frame is close to original by 50%
1m custom algo (from gaunt) is 1m algo, but with customized distance for each MI-frame in 1mm1m sequence.
So (please correct me if I m wrong MAG)

2M = 11m1111m1111m1111m11
1M = 1mm1m1mm1m1mm1m1mm1m

OK for 24->60 conversion output will be :
http://vandenk.free.fr/60fps.png
is that correct ?

But for other conversion (x2,x3,x4,25->60,any refresh rate) what is the sequence ?

19 Reply by vanden (edited by vanden 29-03-2017 20:53:48)

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Re: english manual for SVP

SVP Shader :

  • Intermediate frames calculation algorithm. Affects video sharpness and artifacts masking.

Rendering algorithm or "SVP shader", available values are:
    1 FASTEST - sharp picture without any blending, moves pixels by motion vectors from next frame to current. Requires only backward motion vectors ("analyse.vectors: 2") so it's the fastest possible method.
    2 SHARP - like 1st but moves pixels from the nearest (in terms of time) frame so it uses both backward and forward vectors. Recommended for 2D animations. This shader has no blending/blurring.
    11 SIMPLE LITE - time weighted blend of forward and backward partial motion compensations.
    13 STANDARD - same as 11th but with dynamic median added. Produces minimum artifacts but with noticeable halos around moving objects.
    21 SIMPLE  - 11th plus additional cover/uncover masking to minimize halos and improve frame edges.
    23 COMPLICATED - 21th plus extra vectors from adjacent frames for further decreasing of halos, can be less smooth than 21th.
    This shader uses four neighbor frames to create each new frame. It is the only shader that uses so much information.
    In addition this shader applies occlusion mask to avoid contour artifacts.

Artifacts masking :

  • Artifacts masking strength in areas with Iow quality motion vectors. High values may reduce smoothness. Not recommended for animation.

Disable Artifact masking (less blurring).
More masking => more parts of interpolated frame is blended /replaced with source => less smoothness

Motion Vectors precision :

  • Precision of motion vectors after search. More is better.

use half-pixel precision (slow movements become more accurate).

Motion Vector Grid :

  • Step in pixels between adjacent motion vectors. Recommended values are 12-16, smaller is NOT always better !

Motion vector grid sets values of three svpflow parameters: block.w, block.h, block.overlap.
The smallest value give more smoothness, more fluidity, but more artifacts.
Advises: Change it to smaller to increase local smoothness. Change it to bigger to decrease artifacts.

Decrease Grid Step :

  • Decrease motion vectors grid step with averaging and refinement. Note that refinement is a extremely heavy operation !

Decrease grid step setting manages amount of calls to recalculation function with block size dividing (refine.[thsad1, thsad2, ...]).
Using of it can give more smoothness and decrease waves-artifacts, but makes more visible halo around moved objects.
Advises: Change it to smaller to increase local smoothness. Disable it to decrease halo-effect.

Search Radius :

  • Motion vectors search radius. More is better but may produce “window blinds” artifacts in some cases.

use small radius (less local distortion).

Wide search :

  • How far to search for motion vector in case normal search can’t find a good one. Just leave it by default.

Width of top coarse level :

  • Can be useful to save CPU power when processing extra large frames like UHD (4K). Maximum width of a level to be processed with "coarse" parameters.

Processing of Scenes changes :

  • What to do when scene change is detected.

This controls what the algorithm does when there is a change of camera angle/scene/shot however you want to call it. This usually works quite well when set to repeating which means that it will not try and make an interpolated frame between two completely different shots. However, sometimes, it will regard fast moving sequences as scene changes and refuse to interpolate anything when it should. When Frame blending is selected a blend is used when changing the scene.

Rendering device :

  • The option to overide global "GPU acceleration" value.

Re: english manual for SVP

vanden
But for other conversion (x2,x3,x4,25->60,any refresh rate) what is the sequence ?

it's hard to answer in general
there's a (complicate) function that transforms real frame time stamp

21 Reply by vanden (edited by vanden 29-03-2017 20:25:02)

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Re: english manual for SVP

Chainik
it's hard to answer in general
there's a (complicate) function that transforms real frame time stamp

Ok, proceed by steps !
For "Double source frame rate (2x)" (24->48 , 25->50 , 30->60 , 48->96 , 50->100 , 60->120 ,...). This is good ? :
http://vandenk.free.fr/FrameDoubling.png


Edit - Recapitulation.
I added 1.5m algo and modify the presentation, the percentages match the distance with the previous Original Frame :

http://vandenk.free.fr/SVP-FIM.png

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Re: english manual for SVP

vanden
All your pictures are correct generally.

If you stop use frame number as just number and look at it as at moment in time scale then you will get 0, 1, 2, 3 and 4 msec/sec or other measure units.
So any source frame will be placed at integer values in time scale. But any interpolated frame is situated between two source frames so it has fractional position.

Examples:
2x algo: 0 - 0.5 - 1 - 1.5 - 2 - 2.5 - 3 - 3.5 - 4
3x algo: 0 - 0.33 - 0.67 - 1 - 1.33 - 1.67 - 2 - 2.33 - 2.67 - 3 - 3.33 - 3.67 - 4

Re: english manual for SVP

Hello I'd like to add to this slightly older topic with another question which might be a useful addition. (I also couldn't find this on the wiki)

I was wondering how 'target framerate' affects the amount of artifacts?

I used to just mindlessly use 'to screen refreshrate' but since I bought a 144mhz screen (for gaming mainly) it's not really possible, definitely for 1080p.

For the human eye I believe anything above 34ish shouldn't be discernible? I know this is debated/disputed but let's leave it at that.

I was wondering if I'd get less artifacts when running at just 'double source' (usually 48 or 50) or at let's say theoretically 144fps. Since obviously with the latter a lot more frames would have to be extrapolated. (But that's my own logic and that has proven to not always be true wink )

Another question is for the SVP Shader 23. Complicated, it has ' can be less smooth than 21th.' in the description. Does anybody know in which cases it would possibly be less smooth? This is so I can adjust accordingly depending on the source.

Thanks for the guys who already explained some things above.

Re: english manual for SVP

frame doubling up to 48 fps is a good option for 144 hz screen since 144 is 48*3 smile
and yes, "x2" frames interpolation gives least possible amount of artifacts

Shader 23. Complicated, it has ' can be less smooth than 21th.' in the description. Does anybody know in which cases it would possibly be less smooth?

basically in ALL cases  big_smile

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Re: english manual for SVP

Deefje wrote:

Hello I'd like to add to this slightly older topic with another question which might be a useful addition. (I also couldn't find this on the wiki)

I was wondering how 'target framerate' affects the amount of artifacts?

I used to just mindlessly use 'to screen refreshrate' but since I bought a 144Hz screen (for gaming mainly) it's not really possible, definitely for 1080p.

For the human eye I believe anything above 34ish shouldn't be discernible? I know this is debated/disputed but let's leave it at that.
.

Wait, so you believe that the eye can't see above 34 fps yet you got a 144Hz monitor?



I usually crank everything to the max whenever I can for smoothness but turns out that some settings actually make it less smooth at max. So for max smoothness, set everything to max except for svp shader (21), and artifact masking (weak/weakest)?