1 Topic by ithehappy (edited by ithehappy 18-02-2015 03:12:36)

Topic: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

Hi,
I was informed about this project by a member in Anandtech forum few days ago and I just finally had the time to install the package now and I loaded a movie, and I honestly don't know what to say! I mean the difference is even bigger I suppose than when we moved to 720p from DVD resolution! Damn!

Anyway, I registered here to ask a few things, firstly, while I was installing the SVP package it asked me to install the MPC-HC, customised for SVP option and I selected it, but the thing is I already had the latest version of MPC-HC installed, so would there be any conflict between them, or shall I deselect all the options and install with SVP only again? I use MPC-HC with madVR by the way.

Secondly, coming to the project itself, I didn't have much to play on my hard drive as most things are on my external to which I don't have access at this instant, so I just played the only movie I had, which is Skyfall (1080p, DTS), but I noticed some artifacts in different scenes, especially where Bond would get shot on the moving train and fall to the river, I mean I noticed very serious artifact effects there. I mean it looked like there were at least a few trails falling down to the river, not one person, I don't know if I am making myself clear but that's what I can say, maybe artifact is a wrong term, can't say really.

Oh, I don't know whether PC specs matter or not, but I have a pretty old rig, i7 950, GTX580 (1.5GB) and 8 gigs of memory, that's all.

So if there's any guide which I can follow kindly redirect me to it, and kindly answer to the questions I asked. I am not an advanced user, so go easy in case I have asked something wrong.

Thanks in advance.

PS: I don't speak English by the way, so pardon all the grammatical mistakes.

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Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

1. You can choose either way whether to use supplied MPC-HC or using your own installed version.
In my case, I even using MPC-HC from K-Lite
Sometimes I'm using MPC-BE and Pot player too.

2. Hmm, there are several tricks scattered in many posts in this forum, But the thing for sure is, balance between smoothness and artifacts.
The most easiest you can tweak is, change your target frame rate from "To screen refresh rate" to "Double frame rate (2x)".
Or you can set the artifact masking in your profile from "disabled" to the setting that you may like.

  • biff
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Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

Hi, you can get the latest MPC-HC versions here: http://nightly.mpc-hc.org/
In my experience the last few versions of MPC-HC are much, much faster than the older ones (presumably because the newest version of the LAV decoder (included in MPC-HC) offers the following functionality: "DXVA2 Copy-Back in direct output mode uses up to 50% less CPU and performance is improved accordingly.")
I have a rig roughly approximating yours and I have finally achieved perfect, artifact-free performance due to the latter. 
In my experience, updating everything with the latest version almost never results in compatibility issues.
Good luck!

4 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 18-02-2015 21:04:26)

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Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

You can use any version of MPC-HC just as long as you have the "ffdshow raw video filter" listed and enabled in MPC-HC's Options -> External Filters.  If it's not listed, then click "Add Filter...", find it from the list, click "OK", select the newly added filter on the list, select "Prefer", click OK and restart MPC-HC.

Note that only 32bit MPC-HC works with SVP!

Another thing that the newest MPC-HC has performance wise is much better 32bit decoding performance of VP9 (it was already fast on 64bit though)


Regarding artifacting, you'll want your monitor and/or display to be running at a refresh rate that is an exact multiple of the video source.  Skyfall is a movie, so it's 24fps - therefore you should optimally have your monitor running at 48hz, 72hz, 96hz, 120hz, or 144hz.  Intel and Nvidia graphics control panels have built-in options for custom resolutions and refresh rates, and AMD Radeon user can use CRU - Custom Resolution Utility (note that for some displays, like 1440p monitors, you may have to use a lower resolution like 1080p in order to run at something like 72hz).   I highly recommend using MPC-HC's built in framerate fullscreen resolution changing function which can be found in MPC-HC's Options -> Playback -> Fullscreen - Use autochange fullscreen monitor modes


If you've done that, then make sure you aren't using and SVP settings that are higher than the ones selected by default.  If the artifacting is still too much, then try setting "Reduce Grid Step" to one of the following settings (each resulting in higher CPU utilization):

- To small step
- By two with local refinement
- By two with global refinement

Note that for videos that are not HD, aka 480p or lower, you do not want to use the "By two with ____ refinement" settings but instead should use "To smallest step" (if your CPU isn't fast enough you can use "To small step" as well, but smallest step is better)


If that still doesn't give enough reduction in artifacts, then try reducing the "Frames interpolation mode" by one click, testing for artifacting, and then reducing it by another click if necessary, repeating until you're satisfied or until you reach "2m (min artifacts)"

Alternatively, you can try reducing the "Motion vectors grid" by one click, testing for artifacting, and then repeating until satisfied or until you reach "32px Large 0"

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Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

Eh? "Decrease Grid Step" could reduce artifact?

I had been observing with several different setting of grid step before, the results were indistinguishable.
In the end I didn't set this because of that, and moreover, CPU load was heavier with it.

Only observing it with anime, but not with movies, but I think for movies "Double frame rate(2x)" is already smooth enough regardless of original fps (24 or 30 with monitor refresh rate 60hz).
But each person definitely has different smoothness preference big_smile

Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

mashingan wrote:

Eh? "Decrease Grid Step" could reduce artifact?

Well it's supposed to, though that doesn't mean it actually will.  At the very least it won't increase them.


mashingan wrote:

Only observing it with anime, but not with movies

Anime and photo-like videos are very different when it comes to interpolation to the point that there are seperate optimal settings for anime in SVP under both "Frames interpolation mode" and "SVP shader".

7 Reply by ithehappy (edited by ithehappy 19-02-2015 07:56:11)

Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

biff wrote:

Hi, you can get the latest MPC-HC versions here: http://nightly.mpc-hc.org/
In my experience the last few versions of MPC-HC are much, much faster than the older ones (presumably because the newest version of the LAV decoder (included in MPC-HC) offers the following functionality: "DXVA2 Copy-Back in direct output mode uses up to 50% less CPU and performance is improved accordingly.")
I have a rig roughly approximating yours and I have finally achieved perfect, artifact-free performance due to the latter. 
In my experience, updating everything with the latest version almost never results in compatibility issues.
Good luck!

Thanks mate. But are the Nightlies stable versions? I am scared of the term Nightly actually, because of Cyanogenmod tongue

The version I have is the latest stable one, version 1.7.8, yes, it is 32 bit, as madVR isn't compatible with 64 bit versions either.

8 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 19-02-2015 07:54:01)

Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

You really don't need to use the nightlies since the newest stable version of MPC-HC, v1.7.8, isn't even a month old...

9 Reply by ithehappy (edited by ithehappy 19-02-2015 08:17:12)

Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:

You can use any version of MPC-HC just as long as you have the "ffdshow raw video filter" listed and enabled in MPC-HC's Options -> External Filters.  If it's not listed, then click "Add Filter...", find it from the list, click "OK", select the newly added filter on the list, select "Prefer", click OK and restart MPC-HC.

Okay, so I uninstalled SVP and reinstalled it with everything disabled (see the photo), but now it won't load SVP when I am playing a video. The icon on taskbar says "waiting for ffdshow video" when I hover the mouse pointer over it. I have added the external filter, the ffdshow raw video filter by the way! So I guess I need to install the pre-bundled pack (MPC-HC 1.7.3) which comes with SVP package.

http://i.imgur.com/fXYkDhS.jpg


Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:

Regarding artifacting, you'll want your monitor and/or display to be running at a refresh rate that is an exact multiple of the video source.  Skyfall is a movie, so it's 24fps - therefore you should optimally have your monitor running at 48hz, 72hz, 96hz, 120hz, or 144hz.  Intel and Nvidia graphics control panels have built-in options for custom resolutions and refresh rates, and AMD Radeon user can use CRU - Custom Resolution Utility (note that for some displays, like 1440p monitors, you may have to use a lower resolution like 1080p in order to run at something like 72hz).   I highly recommend using MPC-HC's built in framerate fullscreen resolution changing function which can be found in MPC-HC's Options -> Playback -> Fullscreen - Use autochange fullscreen monitor modes


If you've done that, then make sure you aren't using and SVP settings that are higher than the ones selected by default.  If the artifacting is still too much, then try setting "Reduce Grid Step" to one of the following settings (each resulting in higher CPU utilization):

- To small step
- By two with local refinement
- By two with global refinement

Note that for videos that are not HD, aka 480p or lower, you do not want to use the "By two with ____ refinement" settings but instead should use "To smallest step" (if your CPU isn't fast enough you can use "To small step" as well, but smallest step is better)


If that still doesn't give enough reduction in artifacts, then try reducing the "Frames interpolation mode" by one click, testing for artifacting, and then reducing it by another click if necessary, repeating until you're satisfied or until you reach "2m (min artifacts)"

Alternatively, you can try reducing the "Motion vectors grid" by one click, testing for artifacting, and then repeating until satisfied or until you reach "32px Large 0"

Okay, let me try this, I will come back later. Just FYI I have a 60 Hz monitor, Dell U2412M.

10 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 19-02-2015 08:25:06)

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Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

SVP is open and running, right?

Considering that you installed the full version of SVP you shouldn't need to set up anything if you're using the included MPC-HC...

Nevertheless, make sure the ffdshow raw video filter in MPC-HC is set to "Prefer".

11 Reply by mashingan (edited by mashingan 19-02-2015 08:34:55)

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Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

ithehappy
I posted the sequence on how installing with K-Lite (for alternative)
This is the post link.
It helped the TS.
Maybe just for alternative if you have no other ways anymore

It seems setting the Motion vectors grid to higher value has some quite good effect for reducing the artifact.
Not to mention it even reduce the CPU load too.

And, is the artifact quite related with the quality of video itself?
I mean, if the quality is low (like blurred), it will be harder to detect the edge than sharper video, is this correct?

12 Reply by ithehappy (edited by ithehappy 19-02-2015 08:33:57)

Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

Nintendo Maniac 64
I did install the full version (32 MB one), but I unchecked the the option install MPC-HC v 1.7.3, customise for SVP while installing (as the screenshot on my previous post shows) while installing, along with all the sub-options under it. But never mind, it works now, that prefer option on the external filter did the trick, so thanks to you once again.

  • MAG79
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Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

ithehappy
http://www.svp-team.com/wiki/SVP:MPC-HC
---
sorry. I'm late. You already found the way. smile

14 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 19-02-2015 08:59:53)

Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

ithehappy wrote:

But never mind, it works now, that prefer option on the external filter did the trick, so thanks to you once again.

Good to hear, but I can't help but mention that I already previously mentioned to set the filter to Prefer. ;P

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:

You can use any version of MPC-HC just as long as you have the "ffdshow raw video filter" listed and enabled in MPC-HC's Options -> External Filters.  If it's not listed, then click "Add Filter...", find it from the list, click "OK", select the newly added filter on the list, select "Prefer", click OK and restart MPC-HC.


EDIT:

MAG79 wrote:

ithehappy
http://www.svp-team.com/wiki/SVP:MPC-HC
---
sorry. I'm late. You already found the way. smile

The way I described is exactly the same as what you've linked to, I just didn't know that wiki page existed.

EDIT 2:
Nevertheless, setting the decoder to Copy-back is something that would be recommended, though I personally recommend using Intel QuickSync if it's available since it can give lower CPU utilization save for cases with fancy subtitles (which even then it's not much higher than copy-back).

EDIT 3: Though with the latest version 0.64 of LAVFilters it seems that the CPU difference between QuickSync and Copy-back in use with SVP is extremely minimal to the point of being within the margin of error.

15 Reply by mashingan (edited by mashingan 19-02-2015 09:15:06)

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Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

ithehappy wrote:

that prefer option on the external filter did the trick

In my case, I don't set the external filter but by activating ffdshow raw decoder
It makes my mpc-hc and mpc-be (portable) automatically plays with SVP.

http://i.imgur.com/gjSgcRz.png

16 Reply by ithehappy (edited by ithehappy 19-02-2015 17:06:49)

Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

Okay, I think it's time to make the artifact effects to be minimised as much as possible. So I have only changed the use autochange fullscreen monitor mode under MPC's settings, http://i.imgur.com/YAE74gn.jpg but as for the other options like mentioned on Post 4, well where I do I find those settings? I mean Reduce Grip Step etc. settings.


Update: I have messed up everything! I can't find the LAV Audio decoder option any more while a movie is being played sad

17 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 19-02-2015 19:12:58)

Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

mashingan wrote:
ithehappy wrote:

that prefer option on the external filter did the trick

In my case, I don't set the external filter but by activating ffdshow raw decoder
It makes my mpc-hc and mpc-be (portable) automatically plays with SVP.

This is not necessary for portable since setting "Prefer" can be done with a portable configuration of MPC-HC as well; in fact the "Prefer" method is more portable since ffdshow by definition cannot be portable.

ithehappy wrote:

Update: I have messed up everything! I can't find the LAV Audio decoder option any more while a movie is being played sad

lolwut?  None of SVP's settings touch the MPC-HC settings at all, so how'd you manage to do that?

18 Reply by ithehappy (edited by ithehappy 19-02-2015 22:41:22)

Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

ithehappy wrote:

Update: I have messed up everything! I can't find the LAV Audio decoder option any more while a movie is being played
lolwut?  None of SVP's settings touch the MPC-HC settings at all, so how'd you manage to do that?

Don't know how mate, but I changed something under LAV settings and it wasn't coming at all! Anyway, reinstalling LAV drivers made everything okay.

Could you please answer my actual query, I mean where could I find and change the settings in SVP like you told?

PS: One more question, will there be any problem if I keep GPU Acceleration off (OpenCL)? When I enable it a frame is skipped when a video is finished, I mean at very end!

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Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

ithehappy wrote:

Could you please answer my actual query, I mean where could I find and change the settings in SVP like you told?

Oh, I didn't realize you didn't know where to find this stuff.  First right-click the SVP icon in the task bar, interface type -> Advanced.  From there play the problematic video in question (Skyfall?).  Now right click the SVP icon again, Video profiles, and left click the resolution that is bolded.

ithehappy wrote:

PS: One more question, will there be any problem if I keep GPU Acceleration off (OpenCL)? When I enable it a frame is skipped when a video is finished, I mean at very end!

It only results in worse performance, not an actual reduction in quality.

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Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:

This is not necessary for portable since setting "Prefer" can be done with a portable configuration of MPC-HC as well; in fact the "Prefer" method is more portable since ffdshow by definition cannot be portable.

I meant with portable is that my MPC-BE and MPC-HC wasn't installed in my system smile
I only downloaded the 7zipped version instead of installer version.

And of course ffdshow must be installed, or at least run the command "regsvr32.exe /s ffdshow.ax" so you can find it in external filter smile

As long the player doesn't supply its own internal ffdshow (like potplayer), it can automatically to be used with SVP (but I only testing it with MPC variant tongue )

21 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 20-02-2015 08:04:15)

Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

mashingan wrote:

I meant with portable is that my MPC-BE and MPC-HC wasn't installed in my system smile
I only downloaded the 7zipped version instead of installer version.

...I'm talking about the same thing, I only ever use the same portable version(s).  FYI, the only real difference between portable and non-portable MPC is the option "Store settings in .ini file" (save for the installation entry in Windows' "Programs and Features" list).

EDIT: Heck if you're really OCD about being portable, did you know that there's a PortableApps version of MPC-HC?
http://portableapps.com/apps/music_vide … c-portable

Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:
ithehappy wrote:

Could you please answer my actual query, I mean where could I find and change the settings in SVP like you told?

Oh, I didn't realize you didn't know where to find this stuff.  First right-click the SVP icon in the task bar, interface type -> Advanced.  From there play the problematic video in question (Skyfall?).  Now right click the SVP icon again, Video profiles, and left click the resolution that is bolded.

ithehappy wrote:

PS: One more question, will there be any problem if I keep GPU Acceleration off (OpenCL)? When I enable it a frame is skipped when a video is finished, I mean at very end!

It only results in worse performance, not an actual reduction in quality.

Okay, I have played with all the settings, and none made any difference, but the option called frames interpolation mode. When I change the default (adaptive) setting to 1.5m (for anime) one, I think the artifacts reduce quite a lot, but it also makes the video less smooth than default (however I am guessing that's normal), making it kind of jittery, so I had to change it back to default, and as I said the other two options don't make any difference (at least not to my eyes), I mean the Decrease grip step and Motion vectors grid, changing these to any value doesn't make any difference at all. But then I was playing with other settings too, and this one, labelled as Artifacts masking does something, I mean when I change it from disabled (which was the default) to Average, I think I see less artifacts, and I don't think it's placebo either, and the most important thing is changing it to average doesn't make the video less smooth, well again at least not to my eyes. So I guess I will keep this option at average for the time being.

Now one thing, is there any option to reset all the settings in SVP? I mean I have played with all the settings, so in case something is messed up I would like to know if there's any option to reset everything. Or can I just select the default option on all settings and that would make everything default?

Thanks.

  • biff
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Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

You might also consider doing the following, which I've done:
Use the app 4g_patch and patch all the 32bit SVP-related programs you're using.
Overclock your cpu. (Mine is running at 4.4 Ghz. This can damage hardware. I've destroyed an intel chip gpu doing this!!)
Overvoltage your cpu. (this can damage hardware. I've destroyed an intel chip gpu doing this!!)
Overclock your RAM. (mine is running at 1866. Used to run at 2000. This makes a big difference on my rig, as opposed to 1600.)
Overvoltage your RAM. (RAM is supposed to be indestructible, but who knows??!!!)
Change your bus settings and max out the time your CPU and video card can be accessed by SVP. This fixed not only SVP issues, but also vastly improved the quality of my stereo reproduction)
Windows 8 runs faster than Windows 7. Windows 10 runs faster than Windows 8.
Upgrade your videocard. I've got a GTX970. I didn't think it would make much difference over an overclocked 660ti, but wow!, it was a major dif.
Go into "external filters" and add "J.River Video Decoder Filter" I don't know what it is, or how it works, but it significantly improves performance on my machine. (if not on your machine, J.River is a free download (google it) and you can use it for free for 30 days. My guess is the filter will still work after that 30 days... I don't know yet... ha...)
Try using an alternative player, like PotPlayer. If so, follow the SVP guidelines for installing it. Next, don't use MadVr. Instead goto "preferences" then go to "Video", then go to "VMR9/EVR scaler. They have newly introduced a huge number of choices (I use "Shader(2 PASS)Bspline".
Upgrade your audio software. This speeds things up too. If using Realtek, go here to find upgrades: http://www.station-drivers.com/index.ph … s/Realtek/
Etc, etc...
Oh yeah, if you use Potplayer:
Go to "video" then go to:
Avisynth: click on "Use AviSynth filters" and click on "load script" and choose something. Unclick "use only in progressive frame".
Videoprocessing: click on "Motion blur"
Go to "Filter control" and click on "Video Decoder". Then click on "Built-in codec/DXVA settings". Goto "Hardware acceleration (DXVA) settings and click on "Use DXVA"
There's even more I can advise, but this is already probably overwhelming...
Good luck!

  • MAG79
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Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

biff
Overclock your cpu. Overvoltage your cpu. Overclock your RAM. Overvoltage your RAM...
Do it on your own risk wink

25 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 20-02-2015 19:39:33)

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Re: A total new user, spellbound, however have some queries

ithehappy wrote:

Okay, I have played with all the settings, and none made any difference, but the option called frames interpolation mode. When I change the default (adaptive) setting to 1.5m (for anime) one, I think the artifacts reduce quite a lot, but it also makes the video less smooth than default (however I am guessing that's normal), making it kind of jittery, so I had to change it back to default, and as I said the other two options don't make any difference (at least not to my eyes),.

Did you try the setting "2m (min artifacts)"?  Also note, with a lower interpolation mode you may want to increase some of the other settings, like setting "SVP Shader" to "complicated" and/or setting "Motion vector grid" to one of the three "Small" settings.

Also, assuming that you aren't running your monitor at 48hz, 72hz, 96hz, 120hz, or 144hz, you may want to try setting your "Target frame rate" in SVP to "Double frame rate (2x)"  or if your run your monitor runs at above 60hz you may even want to use "Source multiplied by 3 (3x)' or "Source multiplied by 4 (4x)".

ithehappy wrote:

Now one thing, is there any option to reset all the settings in SVP?

Right click the SVP icon, Video profiles -> Reset to defaults

biff wrote:

You might also consider doing the following, which I've done

This is all related to performance and does nothing for artifacting, which I believe is the OP's main concern here.