• Thanks: 6

Topic: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

Hi all,

I have as 2nd HTPC an Intel NUC with a Core I3 4010u, 1.7GHz, HD Graphics 4400 with 20EUs. I'm running both madVR and SVP for 1080p movies (mainly high quality blu-ray rips) on a 1366x768 60Hz TV (Sony KDL 26EX320). At the moment everything works pretty smooth: madVR tweaked to use DXVA for image up/down, NNEDI32 for luma doubling (GPU usage 70%) but ... SVP only works at 1g profile! Is not that I'm dissatisfied but I'm wondering how come a Haswell CPU at 1.7 GHz, 2 cores, 4 Threads only supports 1g profile? Previously I owned a Core I3 3220T, 2.8GHz and even 4g was possible indeed with a more potent GPU (GTX 750TI) ...

Is it something that I can tweak in the profile to get better than I'm currently have with 1g? I was expecting at least 2g but at that profile the video becomes choppy. HW decoding is DXVA-Copy back in LAV Video and I'm also using ReClock to adjust speed to 59.94.

I have also purchased SVP4, do you think I could get a performance improvement on my rig?

Thanks in advance for feedback.

  • Thanks: 37

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

I think the predefined profile deliberately chooses lower profile to ensure the performance.

But again, predefined profile is auto-detected, not user-defined.
To choose the best of setting for your system is to tweak the setting to "what you deem the best setting".
After tweaking that, you've got user-defined setting, not auto-detected/predefined anymore.

Apart from that, the newer CPU is weaker than the previous one?

3 Reply by ionutm80 (edited by ionutm80 14-10-2015 14:15:26)

  • Thanks: 6

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

Core I3 3220T, 2.8 GHz is IvyBridge LV, 3701 Passmark, can do 4g (I admit paired with GTX 750 TI)
Core I3 4010u, 1.7 GHz is Haswell ULV, 2448 Passmark, can only do 1g (can only test with iGPU, HD 4400 being a NUC ...)

I can clearly see that the new CPU is less powerful by a ratio of x1.5 but to cause a downgrade to 1g in SVP I could only understand it if madVR is saturating in fact the iGPU and there are no more resources there for SVP (even if not much is requested) ... and anyway madVR is only using DXVA for scaling

Best settings mean if I can squeeze more with a user-defined profile. I'm a noob in what regards advanced settings in SVP and that's why I asked here but best settings for me would be more smooth and less artifacts.

  • Thanks: 1622
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

try SVP 4, it should be more intelligent...

5 Reply by ionutm80 (edited by ionutm80 14-10-2015 16:02:15)

  • Thanks: 6

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

Chainik wrote:

try SVP 4, it should be more intelligent...

I will, is it possible to install only the SVP 4 manager w/o mpc-hc, ReClock, madVR, etc.? Once full (mean not free) SVP will be released I will only have to input the SN / Key and the SVP Free will turn into a full one? Or I will need uninstall this one and reinstall the full version?

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

is it possible to install only the SVP 4 manager w/o mpc-hc, ReClock, madVR, etc.?

yep

I will only have to input the SN / Key and the SVP Free will turn into a full one?

nope

7 Reply by ionutm80 (edited by ionutm80 15-10-2015 07:10:12)

  • Thanks: 6

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

Ok, tried again still with 3.1.7 and this time I have watched more carefully the system load: GPU load with GPU-Z and CPU load with the performance graphs in SVP.
At 1g, GPU was about 60-65% load and CPU at 70-85% load while at 2g the GPU was more close to 70-75% but the CPU went up a lot to 95-99% leading SVP to warn about usage ... so the sad conclusion is that my Core I3 within the NUC is not up to the task for even 2g, being far below its desktop brothers ... what a disappointment. I was more impressed with the HD 4400 which seems a little bit more capable than DXVA scaling even up to Lanczos 3 Taps but on the other hand the scaling done by Intel DXVA is somehow very similar to LZ3AR with less usage so not a gain here. Bottom line is that with this NUC SVP has enough room in GPU load for 2g but the CPU simply cannot handle it.
I also did a quick test with SVP4 but I did not notice significant improvement, it even messed something when interacting with ReClock and I had to re-work the settings again ... very strange. I switched back to 3.1.7 since the new one is a bit misleading for me now and I will probably continue to enjoy very smooth playback with SVP at 1g and madVR showing 1 drop frame every 1.2 days.

Anyway I also wanted to say SVP is simply brilliant and for me the combo madVR+SVP+ReClock+LAVFilters+Kodi/MPC-HC is the best combination for enjoying a true home theater experience.

By the way, 1 question: how do we uninstall SVP4, simply delete the folder in Program Files? I did not see it listed in installed programs in Windows while SVP 3.1.7 is listed.

8 Reply by mashingan (edited by mashingan 15-10-2015 06:54:11)

  • Thanks: 37
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

To uninstall SVP 4 Free, simply uninstall it via Program Features.
(Oops, you don't find it in Program Features? That's strange, I uninstalled it several days ago via Program Features).

Something that you can try to tweak it:
1. Motion vectors grid. The bigger the pixel the less stress for CPU.
2. Disable decrease grid step. This is expensive option and only for people who have enough CPU.
3. Try to watch without OpenCL option.
4. Change your renderer from madVR to EVR-CP. MadVR is GPU extensive, since you're using integrated GPU, whether you need to lower your madVR setting or don't use it entirely.

  • Thanks: 6

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

Hi and thanks for the tips,

I will set 2g then try 2 only first and then maybe 1, for 3 and 4 I do not think there is a real issue, HD 4400 with 20EUs seem more than capable (GPU load is at max 70-75% with 2g and madVR).

Yes I do not have the program listed in Installed Program in Windows but I admit I only selected the SVP core to instal since for the rest: avisynth, mpc-hc, madVR and ReClock I prefer to keep my existing tweaks.

10 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 15-10-2015 22:46:07)

  • Thanks: 167
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

I also have a dual-core Haswell CPU (Pentium G3258) except that mine has the multiplier unlocked, lacks SMT, and has a weaker iGPU.  That combined with my CRT monitor (which can run at any resolution up to 2048x1152) mean I can nearly re-create your performance situation by underclocking my CPU and making a custom resolution of 1366x768, thereby allowing an independent look into your SVP performance and see what's going on.


However, your software setup seems a bit questionable considering your TV and your PC hardware.  In particular, why not just change your TV's refresh rate to be an exact multiple of the video framerate and change your TV's resolution to match the video resolution (so that the TV does the upscaling)?

I know that the refresh rate change can be done automatically via MPC-HC since I use it myself, and I believe the resolution change can be done automatically by MadVR thought I am unsure of this.  This way, except maybe for widescreen content lower than 720p, you could not worry about upscaling with MadVR which would take some load off of your PC to allow more headroom for SVP.  Regarding refresh rates, many TVs have a 59Hz (59.94) available by default in Windows without the need for custom resolutions and/or refresh rates, so if 59Hz is available for selection then you might as well use that and not worry about ReClock.



EDIT: Before you do any of that, try the following "quick fix"...

1. Reset your profiles to 2g
2. Set SVP's "Interface type" to "Advanced"
3. Select SVP video profile 1920x1080@24
4. In the new window that appeared, change the value for "Motion vectors precision" from 'One pixel' to "Two pixel", then click OK
5. Now select SVP video profile 1920x800@24
6. Once again, change the value for "Motion vectors precision" from 'One pixel' to "Two pixel", and click OK
7. Test with a 1920x1080 30fps video; if you need one, try this video I normally use (not great quality, but it works): http://mediafire.com/download/ua8i0kdcvd1wqo5
8. Now try a 1280x720 30fps video, which should test SVP+MadVR upscaling; if you need a sample for this as well, I also have one (same footage as above but at 720p and better quality): http://mediafire.com/download/s525ycmc05nbohs


If you can handle both of those videos just fine, then you shouldn't need to worry about anything else.

(the only exceptions would be formats that you can't decode in hardware, like VP9, h.265/HEVC, or 10bit h.264/AVC, or the rare video that's strangely intensive for SVP to handle)

  • Thanks: 6

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

@ Nintendo Maniac 64

Thanks a lot for the tips, I'll try them over the wk and revert with a feedback.

I already tried the 59Hz refresh rate of my TV ... but:
1. my eyes were hurting a little (almost imperceptible flickering spotted vs what I'm used to ... sitting 1.5 m away from the screen), either it's just me being crazy and it's only in my mind or I'm so used to 60Hz that I cannot accept anything else.
2. still see 1 frame repeat every 30-40 minutes w/o ReClock in madVR stats

12 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 16-10-2015 22:04:48)

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

Well ReClock should be much less intensive than MadVR's upscaling, so worry more about MadVR.

EDIT: Also, if my "quick fix" does not work, there is still another thing you can do with SVP's settings, but I didn't want you to do it until we knew whether said "quick fix" worked or not.

  • Thanks: 6

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

Hi, been gone through the wk and didn't have time to test. In the meantime I have upgraded the NUC with an Asus Xonar U3 and will have to re-work the settings.
On my HTPC 1 I have an Asus Xonar U7 and until I configured it properly madVR showed a lot of dropped frames after SVP+ReClock. I will test your recommended settings tonight and revert with feedback.
Q: U3 only supports 48 Hz / 16 bit , should I put this in ReClock or leave "Same as input"/ 24 bit padded into 32?

14 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 20-10-2015 07:30:55)

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

ionutm80 wrote:

or leave "Same as input"/ 24 bit padded into 32?

Volume processing in all versions of Windows since Vista are done at 32bit floating point even if your hardware is only outputting at 16bit, so you might as well use that is you can.

On a similar note, one thing regarding resampling is that, if you're on Windows 7, make sure you install this hotfix:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2653312

Another work around is to set your "default sampling rate" to 96000Hz in the Windows control panel, but as your soundcard maxes out at 48KHz you can't really do that...

15 Reply by ionutm80 (edited by ionutm80 20-10-2015 11:42:33)

  • Thanks: 6

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

Hi, I had a short opportunity window and tested the new settings at home. It improved a little the playback at 2g profile (CPU at 85-92% vs 95-98-99% before) but in madVR stats I saw a significant increase of dropping frames and ReClock could not lock itself on the screen resolution (changing constantly from green to red)... NO GO for me. I switched back to 1g, no more dropped frames after 2-3 min ... but I see 1 frame repeat every 57-58 minutes which is very strange because the only thing I've changed was the audio device (ASUS Xonar U3 on USB vs Intel HD Audio onboard) and previously I had 1 frame drop every 1.2 days! ReClock is green and stable...

By the way I'm on Win 10.

16 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 20-10-2015 17:49:42)

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

ionutm80 wrote:

tested the new settings at home. It improved a little the playback at 2g profile (CPU at 85-92% vs 95-98-99% before)

I couldn't help put notice that you did not clarify what your individual performance was for 1080p and for 720p.

Anyway, my theory is that SVP has enough performance, but MadVR needs more than what is left over.  The easiest way to confirm this is to isolate SVP performance from MadVR by setting your output renderer in MPC-HC to "Enhanced Video Renderer (custom presenter)"; make sure you do not enable "D3D Fullscreen" (normally I would use it, but for the test I want it disabled).  From there test both 1080p and 720p videos and check the CPU utilization for both.



I have no solution regarding the dropped frames though... I mean, since the Xonar U3 is a USB device, it should be easy to test your dropped-frame

17 Reply by ionutm80 (edited by ionutm80 21-10-2015 05:37:59)

  • Thanks: 6

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

Hi, sorry, I tried to download your samples in the evening but it showed 7-8 hrs download time so I gave up ... and only tested with my 1080p blu-ray rips (I do them with eac3to and leave the video stream untouched). However paying only attention to madVR stats, SVP performance graphs and GPU-Z sensors I completely neglected actually watching the movie ... and I have discovered that in spite madVR showing 1 frame repeat / drop every 57-58 minutes, CPU load below 90% in SVP graphs, ReClock green icon and GPU load at 60-70% in GPU-Z the movie was in fact non watchable with constant hick-ups like it was stuttering for 1 sec each minute. So following your assumption I tried 2 options: madVR w/o SVP and SVP+EVR-CP and both were very smooth, no issue at all ... It seems that, as you pointed out, madVR + SVP (even 1g) is too much for my rig. To be honest I've managed to replicate the hick-ups on a much slower laptop (Intel Celeron 1017u, HD Graphics) when I've turned smooth motion on in madVR (rest of the settings were identical).
What does bother me is why SVP+madVR do not get together on my NUC even if the GPU is not fully utilised, 60-70% GPU load does not seem huge for me. I know that playing only with madVR settings I've managed to push the load on GPU to 99% !!!

So now comes the tricky question: which option to choose? madVR w/o SVP and maybe see if smooth motion ON works or stick to SVP + EVR-CP. My movies are only 3 kinds: blu-ray rips (video, audio streams untouched), 25p DVDs rips (MPEG2-->h264) and short movies made with a Samsung S4 camera.

  • Thanks: 167
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

ionutm80 wrote:

Hi, sorry, I tried to download your samples in the evening but it showed 7-8 hrs download time so I gave up ...

That's really odd.  Do you have a really slow internet connection by any chance?  My 3Mbps down is considered quite slow and even then I can download the clips in maybe 10 minutes.


ionutm80 wrote:

So now comes the tricky question: which option to choose? madVR w/o SVP and maybe see if smooth motion ON works or stick to SVP + EVR-CP. My movies are only 3 kinds: blu-ray rips (video, audio streams untouched), 25p DVDs rips (MPEG2-->h264) and short movies made with a Samsung S4 camera.

Well what is the actual pixel resolution of your videos?  Are the blu-rays 1920x1080, the DVDs 720x480, and the Samsung S4 videos 1920x1080 as well?

If you can answer that, then you may very well be able to run SVP with my modified 2G settings...we'll just need to configure some settings in MadVR.

19 Reply by ionutm80 (edited by ionutm80 21-10-2015 08:23:51)

  • Thanks: 6

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

Hi,

I have a very fast connection line 100Mb per sec but who knows ... sad

Blu-Rays: 1920x1080, 23,976fps
DVDs: 720x576, 25,000fps (PAL)
S4: 1920x1080, 29,911fps

In madVR should I play with the CPU/GPU Queue Size and frames presented in advance? For the moment I have standard settings: CPU queue size at 16, GPU queue size at 8 and frames in advance at 8 for both windowed and exclusive. What do you recommend here? I have noticed that my decoder and presenter queues are not always fill (10-15/16 and 5-7/8 if I remember well ...). I do not have a print screen now available but I can do one tonight.

20 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 21-10-2015 17:21:39)

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

Hmmmm, if those are indeed the framerates then it might just be possible to get away with not even using MadVR...

Are you familiar with MPC-HC's automatic resolution changer?  (View -> Options -> Fullscreen; from there click on a resolution and it'll give a drop-down to change it) We might be able to use that, but before we do anything, could you please tell me what resolutions and refresh rates are available, specifically those that are smaller than 800x600 and those that are at least 1360x768?

  • Thanks: 6

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

Hi,

MPC-HC automatic resolution changer: tried that some time ago but I was not very successful.
Anyway I think I might have solved my problem. I have just spotted that my "present queue" was showing 5-7/8 instead of 7-8/8 so I decided to drop the frames presented in advance from 8 to 4 in fullscreen mode and from 8 to 3 in windowed mode. Also in the tab trade quality for performance I've checked the first 4 options up to "store custom pixel shader ..." ... and voila my "present queue" was now 2-3/3 and the stutter was almost non percievable. Then I remember an article on Anandtech where they tested the NUC (the Core I5 version) with madVR and used "CPU and GPU queue sizes of 128 and 24". I said why not try, did that and no more stutter visible, madVR shows 1 drop frame every 1.02 days and SVP performance graphs show CPU average at 67% with 1g profile. Indeed the guys at Anandtech also increased the frames presented in advance to 16 ... and this is where I'm a bit lost. They have practically maxed everything.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7566/inte … c-review/5

But in my case the higher frames presented in advanced seemed to have been the real issue while the CPU and GPU queues only improved an already good situation (1 frame repeat every 3.7 hours --> 1 frame drop every 1.02 days).

Thanks a lot for your help and I will test with more videos and maybe ask a question on madVR forum.

22 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 21-10-2015 20:13:05)

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

Wait, are you saying you fixed only the frame-drop issue, or did you also fix the performance issue with MadVR + SVP?

ionutm80 wrote:

MPC-HC automatic resolution changer: tried that some time ago but I was not very successful.

Doesn't matter since I didn't really want you to enable it, I was just using it as an easy way to list any and all available resolutions (because Windows 10 by default doesn't expose resolutions below 1024x768).

23 Reply by ionutm80 (edited by ionutm80 21-10-2015 20:43:33)

  • Thanks: 6

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

Both in fact, no more stuttering but indeed SVP still at 1g. Maybe the max queues are a bit exagerated but I will try to reduce them step-by-step until I find the sweet spot. I still do not get how come this helped in my case. I could though understand that lowering the number of frames presented in advane was really helpfull.

24 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 21-10-2015 21:49:51)

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

ionutm80 wrote:

indeed SVP still at 1g

Well then the performance isn't really solved, is it?  My whole point is that I'm trying to get you adequate performance with my tweaked 2g settings.  If you can run 2g without MadVR, then isn't it it a bit silly to drop to 1g just for MadVR?

Also, you still have not answered my question regarding resolutions and refresh rates...I'm just trying to see if your TV accepts a direct 720x576 @ 50hz video signal from your PC, because if it does then why not just let your TV do the upscaling?  Or is your TV's hardware upscaling actually worse than what you get with MadVR?

25 Reply by ionutm80 (edited by ionutm80 22-10-2015 08:55:50)

  • Thanks: 6

Re: Recommended settings for Intel NUC Core I3 4010u

Hi,

You're right but priority goes to stability and then to squeezing the last drop of performance. When I started the thread I thought that I had a pretty smooth playback just by looking at different stats and ... I forgot to actually look at the movie and see the stuttering (my screen was filled with GPU-Z, performance graphs from SVP and ReClock ...). Once I figure the sweet spot for CPU and GPU queue size I will try again your settings for 2g profile. Scaling done by my TV (it does have a XReality engine but not the one from the top range) is quite poor I might say, the images look washed and there is a clear lack of sharpness for my taste. With madVR we are talking something different, is like the colors come to life and the sharpness is there ... I know for instance that DXVA scaling with Intel iGPU is based on / or similar to Lanczos with some form of anti-ringing.
Regarding resolution and refresh rates for my TV: yes it accepts everything up to 1366x768 from 24Hz to 60Hz.

Anyway thanks a lot for your input, I will revert with feedback after I test again your settings for 2g. And maybe this time I'm more lucky downloading your sample files.