• Keis
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Topic: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

First of all i list my PC config here, so there is no question about my machine performance.
i7 2600k@4.5Ghz, 16GB ram, GTX670 4GB, 1080p@60Hz

I used to use SVP3 for a long time, basically use it for anime, and i really appreciate for the team who write this software.
I tried SVP4 for a few week, but i feel there is a big different in motion smoothness compare to SVP3.1.7

Switch between SVP4 and SVP3, compare with the same video file,
for example the video trailer of DISSIDIA FINAL FANTASY here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0oTJiy6j8g
I found that SVP4 produce cleaner sharper less artifacts picture, but in the same time it loss the motion smoothness from SVP3.
Compare to the source file without processing, SVP4 just looks like it don't do any frames interpolation insertion at all.
In the end, i switch back to use SVP3.1.7 as my daily driver, although it produce less clean picture, but it produce way much more smoother video than SVP4 to my eyes.

So, i've a question. Is there any way to configure SVP4 to get the same result of motion smoothness of SVP3?
If the answer is NO, than there is no point for me to buy SVP4 or even switch to the SVP4Free after all...

  • MAG79
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Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

Keis
The answer is in the smoothness settings.
Did you any costomization of SVP 3.1.7 profile settings or you use default values?

  • Keis
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Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

MAG79 wrote:

Keis
The answer is in the smoothness settings.
Did you any costomization of SVP 3.1.7 profile settings or you use default values?

No, i use the default profile of SVP 3.1.7 from the auto detection, didn't change anything.

Where is the smoothness settings in SVP4 GUI?
I don't see any configuration values related to smoothness that i could change in the menu.

4 Reply by Fanty1972 (edited by Fanty1972 08-11-2015 22:44:55)

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Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

Keis wrote:

Where is the smoothness settings in SVP4 GUI?

As far as I know, customizing of settings is only possible in the "Pro" version, wich is not released yet. (tomorrow... oh wait, the release date was removed)

5 Reply by cookieboyeli (edited by cookieboyeli 09-11-2015 04:09:28)

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Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

Fanty1972 wrote:
Keis wrote:

Where is the smoothness settings in SVP4 GUI?

As far as I know, customizing of settings is only possible in the "Pro" version, which is not released yet. (tomorrow... oh wait, the release date was removed)

I just got the pro version, there are plenty of customization settings, a few removed and a few added. Here, I'll screenshot it for you.

Don't mind my custom high contrast theme, nothing works 100% with Windows High Contrast. (Not even windows!)
https://i.imgur.com/lmH3gyj.png


It can be a little tricky getting it to switch profiles, but otherwise it's amazingly streamlined. It just works which is not something I could say about SVP 3 let me tell you. No more god damn "waiting for ffdshow video" or dicking around with avisynth. It measures performance very accurately and sets high settings that don't drop frames. CPU and GPU usage is reduced VS before by 15-25% in some cases, yet quality is up! There is none of that judder like there used to be in some scenes.

I'm impressed.

6 Reply by Blackfyre (edited by Blackfyre 09-11-2015 04:15:13)

Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

cookieboyeli wrote:

CPU and GPU usage is reduced VS before by 15-25% in some cases, yet quality is up! There is none of that judder like there used to be in some scenes.

I'm impressed.

I am assuming you're talking based on comparisons made between SVP 4 Pro vs SVP 3.1.7 - ?

Not SVP 4 Pro vs Free (because they should be performing the same as long as they're both the same build number).

I have been very impressed with SVP 4 Free thus far anyway. Looking forward to the PRO, I know they have their hands full right now, so I'll just wait my turn.

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Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

Blackfyre wrote:
cookieboyeli wrote:

CPU and GPU usage is reduced VS before by 15-25% in some cases, yet quality is up! There is none of that judder like there used to be in some scenes.

I'm impressed.

I am assuming you're talking based on comparisons made between SVP 4 Pro vs SVP 3.1.7 - ?

Not SVP 4 Pro vs Free (because they should be performing the same as long as they're both the same build number).

I have been very impressed with SVP 4 Free thus far anyway. Looking forward to the PRO, I know they have their hands full right now, so I'll just wait my turn.

Yes 3.1.7 VS 4.0.0.46 (Pro)

They're probably rolling them out in waves or with a delay in between to avoid overloading the server.

8 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 09-11-2015 05:42:36)

Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

cookieboyeli wrote:

Don't mind my custom high contrast theme, nothing works 100% with Windows High Contrast. (Not even windows!)

May I have a copy of that high-contrast theme?  I know all too well about software that doesn't work correctly with Windows' normal high-contrast theme.

9 Reply by cookieboyeli (edited by cookieboyeli 09-11-2015 07:20:48)

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Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:
cookieboyeli wrote:

Don't mind my custom high contrast theme, nothing works 100% with Windows High Contrast. (Not even windows!)

May I have a copy of that high-contrast theme?  I know all too well about software that doesn't work correctly with Windows' normal high-contrast theme.

I've been waiting for this day. big_smile

They've finally recognized my brilliant retro design! haha

Here's the current revision which I'm quite happy with.  I MAY tweak the hue or brightness slightly in the future, though most likely the selected text background will get tweaked if I tweak anything further. I've been running this for a few months now so it's pretty much final. I have an beta versions of red and blue variants I've been experimenting with as well. Some day I'll make a whole bunch of colors and make a thread for High Contrast Themes on Overclock.net. That's the best place for contact BTW. I'm there daily.

Anyway, here you go! Everything except my Experimental "Twilight Beach" which needs some more demo time before going live. The rest work identically to the official black theme, that is to say horribly.
Since it's a theme, I included my 1440p Space backgrounds in PNG (so windows doesn't f them up as much). Collected from a few different sets and trimmed down to only the best, then ordered and mixed optimally for a good transition without repetitiveness.
No themes are on by default, you'll have to drop the folder somewhere and make them backgrounds.

Took a bit to make and upload, but here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/l79fx … he_Arts.7z
mediafire (dot)com/download/l79fxo89r91ibco/State_of_the_Arts(dot)7z

Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

nothing works 100% with Windows High Contrast

I'll adjust top buttons style sheet to make the selected one looks not so ugly

  • Keis
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Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

Ok, it is now clear.

Just updated SVP 4 Free to 4.0.0.46 and give it another try, still get the non smooth jumpy frame effect as before.
Unfortunately my eyes are so sensitive to frame content movement, that i can easily tell the different smoothness between 30 to 100fps in games,
SVP 4 Free's default frames interpolation method is too jumpy for me, SVP 3.1.7 default profile is much better.

Conclusion:
1. SVP 4 don't use the same default frames interpolation processing method as SVP 3.17
2. I can't choose frames interpolation processing method in SVP4 Free
3. I need to buy the Pro version and customize profile to get back the same smoothness effect as SVP 3.1.7

Alright, i'll buy the Pro and give it a try later.

Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

SVP 4 don't use the same default frames interpolation processing method as SVP 3.17

I believe it should be the same o_O

Two main factors that can affect fluidity in the first place:
1. arifacts masking - you can turn it on or off in SVP 4 Free
2. "frames interpolation mode" which is set to "adaptive" in SVP 4 Free

  • Keis
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Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

Chainik wrote:

SVP 4 don't use the same default frames interpolation processing method as SVP 3.17

I believe it should be the same o_O

Two main factors that can affect fluidity in the first place:
1. arifacts masking - you can turn it on or off in SVP 4 Free
2. "frames interpolation mode" which is set to "adaptive" in SVP 4 Free

Believe and reality are not the same, i believe in my eyes.
I found out why i feel strange about SVP4 in this post
http://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopic … 974#p52974
xenonite explain SVP4 don't do the same frame interpolation as SVP3

By the way i do a screen recording of what's actually happen and the different of fluidity result from both SVP3 & SVP4.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByIqDF … sp=sharing
Look at the cloud movement and the vertical scene afterward, see for yourself.

Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

ok, now please open SVP 4 Events log after playback starts and tell me what number do you see in the square brackets
"Profile: using auto values [XXXX]"

  • Keis
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Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

http://i65.tinypic.com/1zgs4eb.png

the values is 1

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Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

If I remembered correctly, someone said that the default frame interpolation mode in SVP 4 is "Sharp" instead of "Adaptive".

I don't know what is the value 1 in your log though.

Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

Default value is "adaptive" and both versions use 13th shader.
And I don't see any real difference between 3.1 and 4 with the settings Keis provided o_O

Keis
Could you give us that "test_clip.mp4"?

  • Keis
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Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

Sure, why not? the test clip is a part of the opening from Gakusen Toshi Asterisk episode 4.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByIqDF … sp=sharing

I just cut it out for testing, since this anime got alots of vertical and horizontal scene, it's a easy catch to see if SVP is working correctly or not.

Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

hmm... plays fine to me
maybe a few jerks noticed on the final vertical panning sometimes and maybe there're more of them in "animation" rather than in "film"

  • Keis
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Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

Chainik wrote:

hmm... plays fine to me
maybe a few jerks noticed on the final vertical panning sometimes and maybe there're more of them in "animation" rather than in "film"

Not fine on my side, i also tested SVP 4 on 2 laptop, same unacceptable result...
that clip is just a quick test, i confirmed that all of the video got worst result from SVP4 than not using it on my machines.

Test clip round 2:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByIqDF … sp=sharing
This is a simple scene with no moving background, just a spinning card wheel and the scolling staff list

Compare screen recording:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByIqDF … sp=sharing
How bad SVP4 done it, and SVP3 render it so smooth...

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Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

I had a similar issue that was solved by increasing the processing threads amount to 7.

Also, regarding sharp vs adaptive, that was only on low-end hardware.

Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

I had a similar issue that was solved by increasing the processing threads amount to 7.

not an option here cause Keis has an i7 and trying to watch a 720p video...

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Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

Keis
Thanks for that OBS, tried it and quite easy to use smile

In timeline2, SVP 4 is worked but from what I saw, it's looked like the setting has a strong artifact masking?

  • Keis
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Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

mashingan wrote:

Keis
Thanks for that OBS, tried it and quite easy to use smile

In timeline2, SVP 4 is worked but from what I saw, it's looked like the setting has a strong artifact masking?

OBS is quite nice to use for screen recording at high frame rate, although it is designed for live broadcasting.
I just use it for screen recording, since most of the time log file don't tell any problems but screen shoot really can't help to show what's going on.

Everything is set by the assess system performance option, i don't even touch anything other than turn off the outer light that i don't use.
I've turned on the fluency and tearing test during screen recoding on purposely to show that SVP is working and no problems on screen rendering, but the actual video content is so choppy as you see....

Full Settings:
http://i66.tinypic.com/302t3ew.jpg

Full Log:
http://i66.tinypic.com/1j24n.jpg

25 Reply by Keis (edited by Keis 10-11-2015 14:38:08)

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Re: About Motion Smoothness of SVP4

Chainik wrote:

I had a similar issue that was solved by increasing the processing threads amount to 7.

not an option here cause Keis has an i7 and trying to watch a 720p video...

Bingo!! Tried to set the processing threads to above 5 manually, problems solved!!

Thank you, Nintendo Maniac 64

So there is a bug in the auto processing threads detection again!