Topic: Do Custom Options Cause Hanging?

Hi Everyone;

I know I help around here sometimes, now I need some help tongue

I thought this issue was solved, but looks like it hasn't for me, so maybe time to mention it, see if others have it too sad

I'd like to apologise if this question has been asked before and solved. I'll define what I mean by the term "hanging" first.

Hanging - Is when the video and audio stop playing (the media player doesn't crash), and then all of a sudden the audio comes back, lets say 10 to 30 seconds after the hang happens, then the video boosts up in speed to catch up to the audio and then everything is synced again.

Leaving the Settings on Automatic + High Quality + Optimized for Animation + High Artifact Masking everything works fine with no hanging. Zero Issues.

Keeping the Automatic Settings mentioned above in mind, and henceforth clicking on Custom Settings (advantage of having PRO Edition), even just by changing Frames Interpolation Mode from Adaptive to Uniform, 25 or so minutes into a movie, the hanging occurs. This used to be a crash in the early versions (... and before I uninstalled everything, and decided to use the SVP Pro Installer to install all the add-ons), but with recent versions the media player just hangs for a bit, then resumes like I've described above (so no crashing, just hanging). With Custom Settings this happens with SMPlayer using the vapoursynth64 + mpv method, as well as ffdshow32 + Avisynth 2.6 + MPC-HC. It happens with or without Re-Clock, with or without GPU-Acceleration, with DXVA Enabled or Disabled via LAV Filters. As long as I am using Custom Settings the hang happens at one point or another during a movie, and then re-occurs faster than the first time it occurred.

So if I watch 20 minute series I use my custom settings, because it rarely ever happens in the first 20 minutes. But if I am watching movies or long series, I am being forced to switch to Automatic Settings.

By the way I tested different Custom Settings too, leaving Interpolation on Adaptive (in case the issue was because of Uniform interpolation), but I done Half Pixel / 12px Average 2 / By Two with Global Refinement / Large / Strongest / Large, and the hang still happened. Ideally I want to use Uniform with the settings I just mentioned together, but it looks like I can't identify what exactly is causing the hang. ANY HELP would be greatly appreciated.

CPU usage barely ever goes above 30% so I am sure it is not a performance issue. RAM usage is minimal too.

CPU: Intel Core i7 4790K @ 4.7Ghz
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z97X-Gaming GT
Videocard: Gigabyte 280X OC WindForce
RAM: 16Gb EvoPotenza @ 2400Mhz

2 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 23-03-2016 18:37:44)

Re: Do Custom Options Cause Hanging?

What is the SVP index and/or what does the performance graph look like?

3 Reply by Blackfyre (edited by Blackfyre 23-03-2016 19:51:09)

Re: Do Custom Options Cause Hanging?

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:

What is the SVP index and/or what does the performance graph look like?

EDITED:

I had turned off Full-Screen Exclusive mode via Madvr and assumed it had fixed the problem, coincidently it just took longer for the hanging to occur. But it did occur. That's a summary of what I edited out.

SVP Index looks perfectly smooth generally speaking. If you're asking about what happens when it hangs. I have zoomed it and expanded the SVP Index as much as I can to show what happens during the hanging, here is an image below - it seems what is happening is CPU Utilisation takes a massive dip, and then compensates for the dip by taking a massive jump straight after. This causes the video & audio to stop, then the audio resumes, and then the video fast-forwarding itself really fast to catch up with the audio in order to get back in synchronization. It explains why the massive jump in CPU usage occurs (when the video is fast forwarding itself really fast to catch up with the audio), but there's absolutely no explanation for why the dip in usage even occurs. Mind-boggling.

http://i.imgur.com/kMRNPBl.png

Re: Do Custom Options Cause Hanging?

I have edited the comment above & I've added a zoomed in SVP Index using Custom Settings.

Re: Do Custom Options Cause Hanging?

please post a report just after this thing occurs

Re: Do Custom Options Cause Hanging?

Chainik wrote:

please post a report just after this thing occurs

I just got off the PC Chainik, I'll reproduce the effect tomorrow and send a report immediately after it occurs. Thanks, I completely forgot that we can report issues tongue

I really hope it's fixed. I'll let you know here once I've reported the issue.

7 Reply by Blackfyre (edited by Blackfyre 24-03-2016 10:52:46)

Re: Do Custom Options Cause Hanging?

Chainik wrote:

please post a report just after this thing occurs

I just reported it. The only thing I forgot to include in the report is that there was 888 delayed frames after it happened.

By the way it just happened using automatic. But after 1 hour and 10 minutes into the video, and was much shorter than when it happens with custom settings. That's the one I reported.

Goodluck Chainik. Hope you can figure out the problem and let me know. Here, or via email.

EDIT:

OH! I was supposed to click on the options I was supposed to include haha. Okay, let me know which ones you need so I add them next time it happens:

Active Log
Application Settings
FRC Profiles
Last AVS Script
OpenCL System Information
'override' script content
Performance Data

Let me know which ones of these you need. Or should I include ALL?

EDIT #2:

I've just sent in another report of it happening straight after the 20 minutes mark in the movie using my Custom Settings. But this time I added ALL the extra information I can to the report. Goodluck again Chainik.

The report starts with Chainik asked for this in the forum (something along these lines).

EDIT #3

I've reported it multiple times since yesterday with different settings. Hopefully it narrows down the problem.

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Re: Do Custom Options Cause Hanging?

Blackfyre
Thank you for bug reports. We received all 3 reports you sent us.
Trying to reproduce the error...

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Re: Do Custom Options Cause Hanging?

Blackfyre
I still can't reproduce the error.

CPU: Intel Core i7 4790K @ 4.7Ghz

Videocard: Gigabyte 280X OC WindForce

25 or so minutes into a movie, the hanging occurs

Looks like some component of your PC overheats and stops to cool down.

Can you detach discrete GPU and use integrated graphics (Intel HD Graphics 4600)?
Your CPU have it and motherboard have outputs needed. It is for test only. To check if hangs still occurs.

Re: Do Custom Options Cause Hanging?

MAG79 wrote:

Looks like some component of your PC overheats and stops to cool down.

Can you detach discrete GPU and use integrated graphics (Intel HD Graphics 4600)?

Your CPU have it and motherboard have outputs needed. It is for test only. To check if hangs still occurs.

I always have Open Hardware Monitor running in the background, I have Aida 64 Monitoring, and I have I have MSI AfterBurner running to monitor temperatures.

The iGPU (Integrated Graphics) is disabled. I use my 280x for hardware acceleration.

The GPU (280x) doesn't heat up and I also have throttling off so it always runs at 1050Mhz Core & 1400Mhz on Memory (no power saving) via MSI AfterBurner.

The CPU temperatures are great. I have throttling off from the BIOS too. So it's continuously running at 4.7Ghz - I've run it through many stress tests for hours upon hours and it never over heats or throttles. I never have crashes either. When the hanging happens there's also no throttling, I've checked the graphs and statistics with multiple programs running.

My RAM is not overclocked. It's running an XMP Profile.

There's only one thing I haven't tested, disabling GPU acceleration completely via SVP (I've disabled it in LAV, but same issue happens enabled or disabled). I'LL test like you said with Intel HD 4600 and I'll test with GPU Acceleration off.

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Re: Do Custom Options Cause Hanging?

Blackfyre

I've checked the graphs and statistics with multiple programs running

I've just remembered about DPC Latency. Theory about it you can read here:
http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
For win10 it can be measured by internal perfmon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV8g8lm1kIU

Re: Do Custom Options Cause Hanging?

MAG79 wrote:

Blackfyre

I've checked the graphs and statistics with multiple programs running

I've just remembered about DPC Latency. Theory about it you can read here:
http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
For win10 it can be measured by internal perfmon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV8g8lm1kIU

I just tested with 4.6Ghz too (which is something very easy and very achievable for my CPU, especially with my cooler) and also with NO GPU Acceleration (Disabled via SVP) and with my Custom Settings too.

I'm using Windows 10 for the record.

You can see where the dip and spike (hanging) in performance happens, and you can see on the graph above it that the CPU does NOT throttle:

http://i.imgur.com/aDaV0O1.png

And here are all the temperatures for all the components via Open Hardware Monitor while watching the movie:

http://i.imgur.com/IQab3v4.png

Re: Do Custom Options Cause Hanging?

@Chainik @MAG79

I don't know why I haven't taken my own advice from other threads on the forum before and tested this method:

I increased Processing Threads in SVP's Additional Settings from AUTO to 23 (Max Allowed), and the hanging problem did not occur once in 1 hour and 32 minutes (and that's using my own custom settings too, which are harsher and usually cause the hanging problem in the first 30 minutes and then increase its occurrence usually following the first time).

So the solution was to increase Processing Threads. Maybe SVP needs an update where it takes longer to test the system and set the correct number of threads (sorry not the correct number, but the necessary number, for high end CPU's to get the best performance out of them).

Average CPU usage increased from around 30% on Auto to around 40% with 23 Processing Threads. But the problem seems to have been eliminated.

Tomorrow I will test with a 3 Hour movie and report back big_smile

Testing was done with GPU Acceleration Disabled in BOTH SVP & LAV Video Filter.

Hope this helps anyone with the issue if it ever comes up.

Thanks again for following the thread and getting back to me and checking my error reports.

Re: Do Custom Options Cause Hanging?

If increasing the amount of threads helps mitigate the issue, then see if lowering it to a more sane value (like, say, 17?) makes any difference as well.

15 Reply by Blackfyre (edited by Blackfyre 24-03-2016 22:47:26)

Re: Do Custom Options Cause Hanging?

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:

If increasing the amount of threads helps mitigate the issue, then see if lowering it to a more sane value (like, say, 17?) makes any difference as well.

-
I will test by lowering the Processing Threads, maybe even to 15. But for the record with 23 Processing Threads (which fixed the hanging problem), I just decided to now ENABLE GPU Acceleration on my 280X in SVP and twice it crashed within 2 minutes with this error:

https://drdump.com/UploadedReport.aspx? … ondVisit=1

I was just testing. Because GPU Acceleration decreases CPU usage a lot, and preferably I want to keep it enabled. So now we need to figure why this crash happens with many processing threads selected.

EDIT:

Maybe all I have to do is find the right balance between the number of processing threads that stops the hanging from happening and the number of processing threads that don't cause the crash that happens with GPU-Acceleration. Somewhere in the middle.

I will do some further testing tomorrow.

Re: Do Custom Options Cause Hanging?

Just a heads up, with hardware acceleration enabled, I needed exactly 19 Processing Threads set via SVP for it to work with ZERO hanging issues. Tested with a 3 hour movie.

Hopefully this helps someone. Also Chainik & MAG79 please look into this and maybe develop a better system for setting "AUTO" threads.

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Re: Do Custom Options Cause Hanging?

Blackfyre
Ok. We will look into Auto-threads algo.
It mus give at least 19 threads for Blackfyre's i7-4790K (4 cores + HT)

Re: Do Custom Options Cause Hanging?

MAG79 wrote:

Blackfyre
Ok. We will look into Auto-threads algo.
It mus give at least 19 threads for Blackfyre's i7-4790K (4 cores + HT)

Thanks man. But maybe it's 15 Threads for 4790K @ 4.0Ghz (Non-Turbo), 17 Threads for 4790K @ 4.4 Ghz (With-Turbo), and 19 Threads for 4790K @4.6Ghz and higher (Manual Overclocks). I can test if you guys need someone to test.

You guys don't have to do this, I mean we users can test and match what threads we each need to set to achieve the best performance for each resolution. But maybe, somewhere down the line, you can add a new benchmark based on SVP 4 (as an extra add-on to download). And that Benchmark runs for 20 to 40 Minutes, and determines for each person the optimal number of threads to be used for 720p and lower, 1080p, and 4K - Based on their CPU's performance (using very harsh settings in the background that cause hangs faster).

Just a suggestion. Completely up to you guys.

Thanks again for all the help and consideration.

Re: Do Custom Options Cause Hanging?

For the reference, the data from the logs, what's going on on the "spike":

06:09 - CPU usage drops to nearly zero
06:15 - SVP detects source frame rate change from 23.976 to 24.39 and resets the script
06:22 - CPU usage goes to 100%
06:27 - SVP detects source frame rate change back to 23.976 and resets the script again
06:30 - we're all good now

Re: Do Custom Options Cause Hanging?

Chainik wrote:

For the reference, the data from the logs, what's going on on the "spike":

06:09 - CPU usage drops to nearly zero
06:15 - SVP detects source frame rate change from 23.976 to 24.39 and resets the script
06:22 - CPU usage goes to 100%
06:27 - SVP detects source frame rate change back to 23.976 and resets the script again
06:30 - we're all good now

That's interesting. Why does it do that though? I am sure the source I am watching has a constant frame-rate. In cases where I use 40.0.0.60 instead of 40.0.0.73 the hanging never happens.

Right now I have settled on using 40.0.0.60 with Processing Threads on 19 and GPU Acceleration on my Intel HD 4600. I have no issues at all with any video.

So one of two things happened between those 2 versions:

1. The problem is from the SOURCE (what I am watching changing frame rate), but the older version of SVP ignored it and the new version doesn't ignore that change in framerate?
2. The problem is from one of the new SVP Versions that causes the hanging issue to happen.