76 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 25-04-2016 06:29:42)

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

AndyDragneel wrote:

Please, i don't want to do this T_T  Can give me an example of good settings without custom refresh rate?

Here's the problem.


If we do the SVP settings now, we would be optimizing the settings for 60Hz.  For 24fps content, this means doing 2.5x interpolation.

However, by the time we're done, your display should run at 48Hz for 24fps video, 50Hz for 25fps video, and 60Hz for 30fps videos.

In other words, the refresh rate and the interpolated frame rate will always end up being 2x of the source content.

This is a problem because interpolating 24fps videos to 60Hz is worse for smoothness, worse for artifacts, and worse for CPU utilization.


If we figure out the best settings right now, then once we're done they will no longer be the best settings and we would have to do the process again to determine the best optimal settings.

I tried to tell you this with regards to your anime settings, but you insisted on optimizing for "To screen refresh" (which currently is only ever 60Hz and therefore 2.5x interpolation) instead of for 2x interpolation - 2x would have automatically given you optimal settings for 24fps @ 48Hz.


So I'll ask you a very simple question.  Which of the following 4 choices would you rather do?

  • 1. Optimize your SVP settings for 2.5x (24fps -> 60Hz) interpolation now and forget about ever running your display at 48Hz for 24fps, 50Hz for 25fps videos, and just use 60Hz for everything

  • 2. Optimize your SVP settings for 2.5x (24fps -> 60Hz) interpolation now and live with re-optimizing your settings for 2x (24fps -> 48Hz) interpolation later

  • 3. Optimize your SVP settings for 2.5x (24fps -> 60Hz) interpolation now and not even worry about having sub-optimal settings for 2x (24fps -> 48Hz) interpolation later

  • 4. Set up MPC-HC to run at 48Hz for 24fps now and then optimize your SVP settings a single that for that configuration

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

Erm....i think the first one
"1. Optimize your SVP settings for 2.5x (24fps -> 60Hz) interpolation now and forget about ever running your display at 48Hz for 24fps, 50Hz for 25fps videos, and just use 60Hz for everything"

78 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 25-04-2016 06:37:21)

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

AndyDragneel wrote:

Erm....i think the first one
"1. Optimize your SVP settings for 2.5x (24fps -> 60Hz) interpolation now and forget about ever running your display at 48Hz for 24fps, 50Hz for 25fps videos, and just use 60Hz for everything"

Now just to be clear, you want to have less smoothness and have more visual artifacts forever so that you can have SVP working right now (or at least as soon as possible).

Is this correct?

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

Yes it is correct

80 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 25-04-2016 06:42:29)

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

Forever is a long time...if you come back a year from now and want more smoothness and/or less artifacts without upgrading your PC, I'm going to really rub it in that you said you wanted this. tongue

OK, so I must admit you won't get optimal settings now...unless you consider 30 minutes to an hour to be close enough to "now".

What I'm going to do is underclock my CPU so as to create a performance level that is similar to your own, I'll just optimize the SVP settings myself and then post them.

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

OK, don't worry i can wait. And thanks aigain  for your support!!

82 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 25-04-2016 07:09:14)

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

Oh, uh, I just realized that you only said that the TV series is 1080p - you didn't say the codec nor the bit depth.  Bit rate could also be useful, but isn't required.

This is kind of important because 10bit HEVC will take more CPU utilization than 10bit AVC and much more than 8bit AVC.


Also, could you very quickly tell me what your "Fast SVPmark" score is?  You can find out by right-clicking the SVP tray icon in the bottom-right of your screen, going to "video profiles", and then "Reset to defaults" (don't worry, it won't actually reset if you click the upper-right X or "Cancel"); your "Fast SVPmark" score should be a number just to the left of the "OK" button.


I can't really give particularly accurate results until I have the codec & bit depth info, but I could live without the "Fast SVPmark" since that's just to make my life easier by quickly confirming if my CPU setup is correct or not.


EDIT: If you need a reminder on how to check the video info for codec, bit depth, and bit rate, open a video in MPC-HC and then go to File -> Properties, "MediaInfo" tab, and look look under "Video"

83 Reply by AndyDragneel (edited by AndyDragneel 25-04-2016 07:12:05)

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

The video are in 8bit and h264. The score is 753
Sorry 775*

84 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 25-04-2016 07:13:03)

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

AndyDragneel wrote:

The video are in 8bit and h264. The score is 753

Great!  In that case I will not need the video bitrate.

AndyDragneel wrote:

Sorry 775*

It's not 100% exact, so it can vary by it bit.  Don't worry about it.


Now, on to testing!

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

Ok i will wait!

86 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 25-04-2016 07:57:59)

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

Hmmm this is odd, I'm having some conflicting results with regards to simulating your CPU performance...

Well, let's give it some real-world testing then!  Try these settings - don't be surprised if they're too much for your system though.

If it is too much for your PC, please look at the performance graph in SVP (right-click SVP icon, Information -> Performance graphs) and tell me what the "SVP index" is.

Post's attachments

settings.png, 52.43 kb, 443 x 451
settings.png 52.43 kb, 494 downloads since 2016-04-25 

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

Obviusly the playback is horrible with these settings. The index is 0.68 0.70

88 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 25-04-2016 08:12:18)

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

AndyDragneel wrote:

Obviusly the playback is horrible with these settings. The index is 0.68 0.70

OK I figured - turns out that "Fast SVPmark" is horribly inaccurate since I was only getting a value of around 650!

...though that makes me think, you do have GPU acceleration enabled in SVP, correct?

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

correct!

90 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 25-04-2016 08:39:54)

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

Ok, now if my math is correct, these settings should be usable.

Since you seemed to be pretty OCD about artifacts, I prioritized having "Global Refinement" and also threw in some weak artifact masking as well.

Again, same thing, if it's still too much then tell me your SVP index and maybe your CPU utilization.

Post's attachments

settings.png, 50.38 kb, 443 x 451
settings.png 50.38 kb, 488 downloads since 2016-04-25 

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

With these settings the cpu utlization is 95% and the index is 0.95. So the playback is tooo slow T.T

92 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 25-04-2016 09:06:11)

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

AndyDragneel wrote:

With these settings the cpu utlization is 95% and the index is 0.95. So the playback is tooo slow T.T

You have D3D Fullscreen enabled in MPC-HC, right?

If that still isn't enough, set artifact masking to "disabled" - that should gain you about 5% CPU utilization.

You might be able to also gain maybe 2-3% by setting "Processing of scene changes" to "Repeat frame".

Also you could try setting "Search radius" to 'Average' which may gain you another 2-3% of CPU utilization.

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:
AndyDragneel wrote:

With these settings the cpu utlization is 95% and the index is 0.95. So the playback is tooo slow T.T

You have D3D Fullscreen enabled in MPC-HC, right?

If that still isn't enough, set artifact masking to "disabled" - that should gain you about 5% CPU utilization.

You might be able to also gain maybe 2-3% by setting "Processing of scene changes" to "Repeat frame".

Also you could try setting "Search radius" to 'Average' which may gain you another 2-3% of CPU utilization.

With these adjustments the cpu is 80% 85% and the index is 1.00 so the playback is fine.

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

AndyDragneel wrote:

With these adjustments the cpu is 80% 85% and the index is 1.00 so the playback is fine.

Alright, you should be good to go then, though you're still welcome to tweak them yourself some.

Since I've got a good idea on your CPU performance now, I may try looking into some specific settings for anime, both for 8bit AVC and 10bit AVC - though definitely not tonight, I need to get to bed.

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

Okok, goodnight see you later!

96 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 26-04-2016 00:29:31)

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

Crazy question that I was curious about...

You've made it very clear that you want nothing to do with running your display at 48 Hz.

...but what are your thoughts on running your display at 72 Hz?

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

What are the advantages of using 72hz monitor?

98 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 26-04-2016 05:45:01)

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

AndyDragneel wrote:

What are the advantages of using 72hz monitor?

I don't mean a separate monitor that can run at 72Hz, rather I mean running the display you currently have (presumably a laptop?) at 72Hz.

Regarding the advantages, uh...you mean you don't know the advantages?  I thought it'd be obvious - I mean, running a video game at something like 90fps is clearly better than running it at 60fps.

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

But will my cpu handle it?

100 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 26-04-2016 19:57:17)

Re: SVP 4 Stuttering problem while watching anime

AndyDragneel wrote:

But will my cpu handle it?

The difference is only maybe 2-3% more, but honestly you could probably drop "reduce grid step" to "local refinement" without much of a visual effect and that would also save you 2-3%.


...this is assuming your display doesn't do frame-skipping when ran at 72Hz, but most 1366x768 displays will be just fine (my own 1366x768 laptop display can do 72Hz no problem).

The quick-and-dirty way to find out if it's doing frame skipping is to just drag a program window around relatively quickly and see if it's smoother than 60Hz; if it's smoother, then you should be good.  The OCD way is to run the BlurBusters frame-skipping test and take a photo of the screen (slow cell phone cameras are actually better at this).