Topic: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

after 6 years never post here again due to lack of hardware, i decide to built one suitable again
cant decide which more suitable between i5 7600 or ryzen 7 1700
and about the gpu , from svps wiki the list never updated, so its safe to assume that its more than enough for gpu thats above gts 250? (though i vividly remember that my old 6870 can barely keep up with all the svp load though im only using a core2duo then maybe thats why)

basically:
currently on FHD, maybe moving to 4k in about 2 months.
i5 7600 or ryzen 1700?
gpu to choose? comfortable with 1070 pricepoint, but could force for the cheapest 1080 like those mini version or 1080ti founder if needed

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

> i5 7600 or ryzen 1700?

this's not even a question
ryzen is 2 times faster

3 (edited by dlr5668 17-04-2017 09:37:26)

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

1600 is more than enough
for gpu 1060-1070 is optimal if u dont need it for games

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

Indeed.
However I personally prefer 1700 smile

And 1070 is an overkill "if u dont need it for games"

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

i think im going to up the games to i7 7700k or ryzen 1800x. so 1800x beats 7700k for svp right?
regarding 1070, how about madvr?
isnt those loads as much as gaming?
the lads from avs recommends 1080 for max performance and good 4k  (though 1070 rightly in the sweet recommendation spot)

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

> so 1800x beats 7700k for svp right?

~1.5 times

I'm not sure if 7700k can do highest SVP settings with 4K, while mine 1700 @3500 @1.1V @60W can smile

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

Definitely go for the 1800X over the 7700K if you're choosing between those two.

Are you in a hurry to build this system though? In around 1 month, AMD will release its VEGA cards. And I'm not talking about the RX570 & RX580. I'm talking about the cards that will compete with the GTX 1070 & 1080, maybe even with the 1080 Ti (but no one knows if they'll release something to compete with this).

Anyway, if you want a GPU solely for Madvr, I highly recommend you wait for the AMD VEGA cards. It depends what GPU you're currently using, but you might be disappointment with how much you can push Madvr using a GTX 1070 or 1080.

Also that way, your system will be fully AMD based. Ryzen 7 + VEGA. Who knows if VEGA will have extra advantages too if it's linked to a Ryzen CPU; it probably doesn't, but we just don't know yet.

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

RX480 have issues with madVR (performance, coil whine). I would wait for madVR users feedback before buying an AMD VEGA card.

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

nemoW wrote:

RX480 have issues with madVR (performance, coil whine). I would wait for madVR users feedback before buying an AMD VEGA card.

Mate, coil whine is now an issue even with nVidia since the pascal cards. My MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X under full stress has audible coil whine that's actually annoying. Which is why I never fully stress it. The idea is, whatever Madvr setting you want to use, make sure they use 70% to 80% of the GPU. The moment you go over 80% GPU usage with Madvr, you'll get coil whine, the higher, the stronger the whine, so I decrease the settings for Madvr. Also it's much quieter to keep the GPU usage below 50%, because then even the fans won't speed up and the system remains very quiet.

The idea is, the stronger the GPU, the less you need to use it. And with AMD VEGA, if you're using decent settings, assuming the cards will be as strong as the GTX 1070 or stronger, then you won't need to worry about coil whine, since you're not really stressing them that much. But if you do want to stress the GPU, and use stressful settings that give you better quality, then be prepared for some EHHHHHHHHH!!!!

10 (edited by James D 18-04-2017 17:00:27)

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

Blackfyre wrote:

Definitely go for the 1800X over the 7700K if you're choosing between those two.

Are you in a hurry to build this system though? In around 1 month, AMD will release its VEGA cards. And I'm not talking about the RX570 & RX580. I'm talking about the cards that will compete with the GTX 1070 & 1080, maybe even with the 1080 Ti.

If he gonna play games then Radeon + Ryzen is not the best choice here. AMD GPUs always need faster processor for not being CPU limited than Nvidia. So if someone want Ryzen but still going to play games then the best way to go is Nvidia + Ryzen. The only reason to wait for Vega here is to wait for price drop on Nvidia cards.

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

James D wrote:

If he gonna play games then Radeon + Ryzen is not the best choice here. AMD GPUs always need faster processor for not being CPU limited than Nvidia.

Huh? That makes little sense. Benches clearly show that the upper CPU limit is never scratched with current games, whereas with Ryzens, you will have WAY higher minimum fps (1% and 0.1% especially).
Plus, if you go Ryzen + Radeon you save a lot of money and have comparable performance to i7 7700K + GTX1060.


James D wrote:

So if someone want Ryzen but still going to play games then the best way to go is Nvidia + Ryzen. The only reason to wait for Vega here is to wait for price drop on Nvidia cards.

Nvidia drivers actually gimp Ryzen performance because Nvidia missed the train on actually building decent hardware that can compute asynchronously.
And while Vega will certainly lead to Nvidia price drops, but some leaks suggest that Vega cards are actually up to 15% beefier than a GTX 1080 Ti

12 (edited by James D 18-04-2017 20:23:39)

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

dejavecue wrote:

Benches clearly show that the upper CPU limit is never scratched with current games

- What benches? 4K gaming maybe. Because all review "benches" show Ryzens fps level at 80ies with embarassing 60 on Gears of War. So if by that you meant "never scratched for 60Hz gamers" then yeah, but I consider 100+ fps preferable which Ryzen can provide only for some games.

Nvidia drivers actually gimp Ryzen performance because Nvidia missed the train on actually building decent hardware that can compute asynchronously.

Shadow of Singularity much? Anyway, Async compute has nothing with CPU because that is a graphics type of calculations. Also this statement isn't backed up by reality where Ryzen+Nvidia = more fps than Ryzen + Polaris/Fury.
Here you go one video proof https://youtu.be/7NCHhn0xEmo?t=9m24s

with Ryzens, you will have WAY higher minimum fps (1% and 0.1% especially).

Fanboyism. I know that sounds logic that 8 core brings higher min fps but unfortunately reality brought us parity: some games have way higher min fps on Ryzen while others have that on Intel. I know this because I also hoped that theory to become truth but then faced graphs of other games.
I used reddit, watched Hardware Unboxed channel, sometimes Linus or other recommended videos about Ryzen (Ocing, gaming, OS comparisons, etc).

And while Vega will certainly lead to Nvidia price drops, but some leaks suggest that Vega cards are actually up to 15% beefier than a GTX 1080 Ti

I won't argue on leaks nor take them very serious anymore. Only real reviews.

dejavecue wrote:

Plus, if you go Ryzen + Radeon you save a lot of money and have comparable performance to i7 7700K + GTX1060.

Also won't comment this because I never said to go with Intel if someone wants best SVP results.

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

I'll just leave it here big_smile

http://i.imgur.com/69AOjNS.png

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

im back again. thanks for all the feedback though never id been more confused after reading all those jargon than before asking the question.
so i decided to go the easy route and choose i7700k with 1080ti .
initally want to build an itx, but the gpu is 325cm length so a standar atx for now

15 (edited by James D 15-05-2017 15:47:24)

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

If by jargon you mean 1600, 1700, 1800X, rx480, nvidia, GPU... then yeah, there were a lot of text with those words. As for confusion... I guess 90% agreed that Ryzen + Nvidia is the best.

16 (edited by brucethemoose 15-05-2017 18:42:16)

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

AMD's older "large" GPUs (Fury, 390X, 290, 280X, 7950, 6970 etc) are all great for MadVR relative to their price. They have more raw shader grunt than their gaming-equivalent Nvidia (and AMD) counterparts, which is exactly what MadVR needs.

Vega should fall into that same category, theoretically. Though that's kinda overkill, as a Fury is easily enough for current displays.

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

It's me again.
So I decided to put the final piece for my pc, the display.
For 4k, I'm undecided between monitor or TV.
I'm unfamiliar with monitor, so for a comparison, I'm using Sony x85d/x80e tvs.
For their price point which isbetter to choose , monitor or TV?if there's any brand and or type, please do tell.
Thanks.

18 (edited by Blackfyre 04-06-2017 18:47:22)

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

I have the 43" Sony X8000D 4K TV and I've used monitors before, but ever since I have switched to TV's it has been a much better experience.

If priority of the PC is competitive multiplayer gaming, go with a 144Hz Monitor.

If the priority is entertainment (watching movies and series) + casual multiplayer gaming + single player campaign mode gaming, then definitely go for a TV.

Keep the size around 43" as larger than that, sitting on a PC table and a chair that's 1.5 meters away you don't want something bigger.

You want a 4K TV, that can do 4:4:4 Chroma Subsampling, with 10Bit HDR. Both of the TV's you suggested above have all those features. And the X85D is definitely the better TV, however the smallest size it comes in is 55".

The X80E is the new version of the X800D (also known as X8000D in the Asia Pacific region).

If you're sitting more than 3 meters away from the TV, I'd say go with the 55" X85D.

If you're sitting 1 to 2 meters away from the TV, get the 43" X80E

One final thing, the best thing about the X800D (the older model which I have) is that it came with a VA Panel, while the larger versions of the screen (the 49" and 55") both came with IPS Panels.

The VA Panel has deeper blacks, which is a big advantage. However, the colours get slightly washed out as you look at it from different viewing angles (so if you're not sitting directly in front of it, the colours get a bit washed out), for me that didn't matter at all because I am using it as a monitor, so it's directly in front of me. The IPS Panels don't have deep blacks, but their viewing angles are great.

I am not sure if the 43" X80E is still using the same VA Panels as the X800D or they switched to an IPS Panel.

So slightly above this range, you have the Samsung KS8000 55" and the newer KS8500 (which use quantum dot technology) they're better than the Sony TV's above. And if you want true deep blacks, you have to go with an LG OLED TV, but they're very expensive usually (however, they are by far the best, and jaw dropping in their quality). Every time I go to a friend of mine and watch a movie on their OLED TV, I feel like throwing my TV in the bin (even though I really like it). It takes me a day or two to readjust to using my TV again.

Stick to your price range, and in your price range I just gave you the pros and cons.

19 (edited by paddy_mcholey 30-04-2018 03:06:31)

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

Hi its me again, need a new upgrade path again.
so as my previous post last year, im currently on 7700k (OC 5Ghz) 16GB RAM and 1080ti

my main plan now is to replace the gpu with either vega 56 or 64. i heard people talking that its more than a gaming card, so would i get a decent, probably around the same if not more (hopefully) than 1080ti?
reason: utlizing svp and madvr, i cant get my sweet spot to run smoothly  if i choose ngu for madvr, for now i had to settle with jinc and i feel that them is not sharp enough.

so would i get a more decent svp and madvr performance with vega upgrade (as both are not a game) or with cpu upgrade
i prefer the gpu upgrade first because its easier to replace rather than changing cpu of which i had to dissemble my pc first to do that

edit: and also i decided against taking those 4k tvs last year. im now with a 1440p monitor (samsung chg70)

20 (edited by brucethemoose 01-05-2018 01:02:29)

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

I doubt Vega would be much faster than a 1080TI in MadVR, especially if you OC the TI a little. It's at least on par, and the TI is faster in games for sure.

Have you tried resetting MadVR's settings to defaults? There are some old MadVR guides out there that suggest really bad/outdated settings. A 1080 TI should easily handle NGU, even at 4K/60 with 1080p input, so it sounds like something is off.

In theory the CPU should have nothing to do with MadVR performance, only SVP performance.


EDIT: Oh, you're at 1440p/144hz? Make sure SVP isn't choking your CPU, that can be alot for it to handle. It's also alot for MadVR if you're forcing it to double 1080p then downscale it at such a high refresh rate.

You should look at CPU and GPU usage during a video and see what's limiting everything.

21 (edited by adamkex 01-05-2018 05:44:39)

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

What's your budget? Why not an i7 8700k with a Noctua NH-D15 cooler (make sure your case is large enough)? Maybe get also get a Raijintek Morpheus II heatsink with two Noctua fans to keep your GPU quiet. Remember the more your hardware is working the louder it is. With a setup like this you won't have to upgrade your system in a very long time if you game (I'm still using the i5 2500k).

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

funnily enough, i never put too much care on temperature, and i found that my gpu runs at 84C, the maximum that the target allowed. i remember back then it used to run under 70C.
so i decided to put two noctua 14cm ippc for an intake and changing gpus paste.
in total it cost me around 60buck, so its a 740 dollar saved against buying vega.
now i can put svp and ngu together.

cheers

23 (edited by dlr5668 04-05-2018 14:00:05)

Re: building machine for svp and madvr, please help me decide

same here, I overclocked, undervolted and tweaked my fan profile so GPU spend most time working at 76-80c (1070 with 1 fan)