1,751 Reply by dawkinscm (edited by dawkinscm 10-07-2024 12:08:42)

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Chainik wrote:

> IC is properly processing that scene.

with a threshold value <=15
making a lot of false SC detections in other scenes

dawkinscm
> The only "garbage" Rife frames are with SVOP and NVOF which explains why I didn't like what I saw.

but you said the opposite thing - "With both NVOF and SVP this is a very sharp and jarring cut" big_smile

When something is "jarring" it is bad which is why "I didn't like what i saw". I can't even begin to understand where you are coming from when what you are saying is contrary to what I have said, but more importantly it is also contrary to what we are seeing. One minute you are saying that I'm seeing garbage frames with IC. Then when it's clear that myself and others are not seeing the same thing, now you are saying something else.

So let's just get back to the point I have been making since the start. There is an issue with SVP and NVOF and @flowreen91 has kindly demonstrated it. We all want SVP to be better so if it can be fixed then great. If not then we will continue to use IC.

1,752 Reply by Drakko01

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Chainik wrote:

> Is there anything we can do to increase NVOF and SVP algorithms strength

yep
smooth.scene.limits.scene
smooth.scene.limits.blocks

the bad thing is that values that work good with resizing to 720p doesn't seems to work with 1080p and 4K

Good to know, only for reference which value it's similar to IC with a value 25% 30% of scene threshold.

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Chainik wrote:

> Is there anything we can do to increase NVOF and SVP algorithms strength

yep
smooth.scene.limits.scene
smooth.scene.limits.blocks

the bad thing is that values that work good with resizing to 720p doesn't seems to work with 1080p and 4K

What are the values that work well with 1080p and 4K? That could be of use to many of us on here.

1,754 Reply by Chainik

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

dawkinscm
> One minute you are saying that I'm seeing garbage frames with IC.

you said you have "very sharp cut" with MVs, while it's not that sharp with IC
meaning you saw frame repeating with MVs and some kind of "soft" mixing with IC
dunno how I supposed to understand this in opposite way

now we figured that it's exactly opposite - "sharp cut" with IC and soft mixing with MVs, thank godness big_smile
and more, we also figured that MVs gives different results for different frame sizes, at least for 720p and others, which wasn't so expected by me, and I need to look into it

1,755 Reply by dawkinscm (edited by dawkinscm 10-07-2024 13:35:28)

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Chainik wrote:

dawkinscm
> One minute you are saying that I'm seeing garbage frames with IC.

you said you have "very sharp cut" with MVs, while it's not that sharp with IC
meaning you saw frame repeating with MVs and some kind of "soft" mixing with IC
dunno how I supposed to understand this in opposite way

I was going to say that this was probably a language misunderstanding but I felt you might be insulted by me saying that. But you still don't understand so that's clearly the issue. The key words "sharp" and  "jarring" used together like this is always bad. SVP and NVOF have "jarring" cuts means they have bad scene cuts.

1,756 Reply by Xenocyde

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

dawkinscm wrote:
Chainik wrote:

dawkinscm
> One minute you are saying that I'm seeing garbage frames with IC.

you said you have "very sharp cut" with MVs, while it's not that sharp with IC
meaning you saw frame repeating with MVs and some kind of "soft" mixing with IC
dunno how I supposed to understand this in opposite way

I was going to say that this was probably a language misunderstanding but I felt you might be insulted by me saying that. But you still don't understand so that's clearly the issue. The key words "sharp" and  "jarring" used together like this is always bad. SVP and NVOF have "jarring" cuts means they have bad scene cuts.

I think what Chainik is trying to say is it seems counterintuitive to have sharp and jarring cuts with "garbage" AI blended scenes on SPV and NVOF, while IC has no sharp and jarring cuts with no "garbage" blending.

1,757 Reply by Blackfyre (edited by Blackfyre 11-07-2024 00:52:40)

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Chainik wrote:

Blackfyre
> For some reason SVP smoothness does not work properly with them now.

this is the cost of non-blinking
it has to repeat frame when DV data changes, which may happen at random places

Oh! Interesting, well it happens a lot with Mandalorian S3E4, it has become my torture test the scene at the start with a lot of panning shots (first 3 or so minutes).

Hopefully in the future you find a solution to the above as well, that would be amazing!

Also, for me I have been using "SVP Motion Vectors" for Scene Change Detection since the latest update and I'm happy with it.

For anyone interested, this is my mpv config now - you can scroll up and down in the code below to see the full config:

Remove - updated in below post.

Regarding the below:

Chainik wrote:

> Is there anything we can do to increase NVOF and SVP algorithms strength

yep
smooth.scene.limits.scene
smooth.scene.limits.blocks

the bad thing is that values that work good with resizing to 720p doesn't seems to work with 1080p and 4K

I will experiment myself, but any recommendations for 4K content only? I always just watch 4K high bitrate content now. So, I want highest quality if there are further improvements. I am happy with default, but always interested in tweaking haha

1,758 Reply by dawkinscm (edited by dawkinscm 10-07-2024 22:14:55)

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Xenocyde wrote:
dawkinscm wrote:
Chainik wrote:

dawkinscm
> One minute you are saying that I'm seeing garbage frames with IC.

you said you have "very sharp cut" with MVs, while it's not that sharp with IC
meaning you saw frame repeating with MVs and some kind of "soft" mixing with IC
dunno how I supposed to understand this in opposite way

I was going to say that this was probably a language misunderstanding but I felt you might be insulted by me saying that. But you still don't understand so that's clearly the issue. The key words "sharp" and  "jarring" used together like this is always bad. SVP and NVOF have "jarring" cuts means they have bad scene cuts.

I think what Chainik is trying to say is it seems counterintuitive to have sharp and jarring cuts with "garbage" AI blended scenes on SPV and NVOF, while IC has no sharp and jarring cuts with no "garbage" blending.

Except he regularly made jokes about me "preferring" garbage AI frames while I was using IC. But ironically, it was SVP and NVOF that had the garbage frames, not IC. Anyway that's in the past, let's move forward.

1,759 Reply by dawkinscm (edited by dawkinscm 10-07-2024 20:37:23)

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Blackfyre wrote:

For anyone interested, this is my mpv config now - you can scroll up and down in the code below to see the full config:

ontop 

dither=error-diffusion 
error-diffusion=burkes

Thanks for this. There's nothing in your config that makes a difference for SVP and we've already had the discussion about config lines that essentially do nothing or are even contradictory. But if you are happy with the picture then I suppose it doesn't matter big_smile However I am interested in the error-diffusion you chose so I will try that out. Thanks smile

1,760 Reply by Chainik

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Blackfyre
> Hopefully in the future you find a solution to the above as well, that would be amazing!

blinking comes from mixing two frames having different colors, so I don't see any solution for RIFE
... except inserting a "regular SVP"-generated frames at these points, but it sounds too complicated for now

1,761 Reply by Blackfyre (edited by Blackfyre 11-07-2024 01:59:30)

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Chainik wrote:

Blackfyre
> Hopefully in the future you find a solution to the above as well, that would be amazing!

blinking comes from mixing two frames having different colors, so I don't see any solution for RIFE
... except inserting a "regular SVP"-generated frames at these points, but it sounds too complicated for now

Wow yeah that makes sense.

What is interesting is why does some DV content work ALMOST flawlessly with very little blinking or stutter in some TV shows, such as House of the Dragon, but then Disney TV shows with DV stutter so much now (flicker before)?

EDIT: Fixed as I just noticed it happening in very specific scenes in HoTD, but very limited.

So, I assume the answer is colour grading and luminance grading. The higher the quality and smoothness between frames, the less it occurs. And HotD is produced with very high quality.

dawkinscm wrote:
Blackfyre wrote:

For anyone interested, this is my mpv config now - you can scroll up and down in the code below to see the full config:

ontop 

dither=error-diffusion 
error-diffusion=burkes

Thanks for this. There's nothing in your config that makes a difference for SVP and we've already had the discussion about config lines that essentially do nothing or are even contradictory. But if you are happy with the picture then I suppose it doesn't matter big_smile However I am interested in the error-diffusion you chose so I will try that out. Thanks smile

Can you point out the config lines that do nothing in my latest config, and also the ones that are contradictory and what they are contradicting? I would love to tone it down and clean it up. I thought this is the cleaned-up version as I removed and changed many of the old lines after the latest SVP update that fixed flickering.

I'll post the latest config here as a quote:

ontop
fullscreen=yes
d3d11-exclusive-fs=yes

volume=100
volume-max=100

vo=gpu-next
gpu-api=d3d11
hwdec=auto-copy
hwdec-codecs=all
gpu-context=d3d11

hdr-compute-peak=yes
tone-mapping=bt.2446a
target-colorspace-hint=yes

scale=ewa_lanczos
cscale=ewa_lanczos
dscale=ewa_lanczos
tscale=ewa_lanczos

dither-depth=10
dither=error-diffusion
error-diffusion=burkes

osd-color=0.5
osd-font-size=30
osd-font='Inter Tight Medium'

#sub-gray
sub-auto=fuzzy
#sub-gauss=0.9
slang=eng,en,und
sub-fix-timing=yes
sub-filter-sdh=yes
subs-with-matching-audio=no
demuxer-mkv-subtitle-preroll=yes

sub-font-size=42
sub-border-size=1
sub-font="Verdana Bold"
sub-color=0.85/0.85/0.85/0.85

sub-pos=100
sub-margin-y=3
sub-margin-x=100

glsl-shader="C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\mpv\Shaders\FSRCNNX_x2_8-0-4-1.glsl"
glsl-shader="C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\mpv\Shaders\KrigBilateral.glsl"
glsl-shader="C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\mpv\Shaders\SSimDownscaler.glsl"

1,762 Reply by dawkinscm (edited by dawkinscm 11-07-2024 10:17:08)

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Blackfyre wrote:

[
I'll post the latest config here as a quote:

ontop
fullscreen=yes
d3d11-exclusive-fs=yes

volume=100
volume-max=100

vo=gpu-next
gpu-api=d3d11
hwdec=auto-copy
hwdec-codecs=all
gpu-context=d3d11

hdr-compute-peak=yes
tone-mapping=bt.2446a
target-colorspace-hint=yes

scale=ewa_lanczos
cscale=ewa_lanczos
dscale=ewa_lanczos
tscale=ewa_lanczos

dither-depth=10
dither=error-diffusion
error-diffusion=burkes

glsl-shader="C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\mpv\Shaders\FSRCNNX_x2_8-0-4-1.glsl"
glsl-shader="C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\mpv\Shaders\KrigBilateral.glsl"
glsl-shader="C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\mpv\Shaders\SSimDownscaler.glsl"

To be fair this is a very much cleaned up version. I'm curious if this different to the one I commented on because if it isn't then I owe you an apology smile

On this cleaned up version, you don't need  hwdecs-copy=all and you are not using tscale. On my setup, Error-diffussion in general isn't required for gpu-next coz Ordered works as well or better and costs almost zero resources. Again on my system, if error-diffusion is used then Burkes is worse than Floyd. After that the shaders are personal preference.

Good job big_smile

1,763 Reply by Xenocyde

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Blackfyre wrote:

scale=ewa_lanczos
cscale=ewa_lanczos
dscale=ewa_lanczos
tscale=ewa_lanczos

dither-depth=10
dither=error-diffusion
error-diffusion=burkes

glsl-shader="C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\mpv\Shaders\FSRCNNX_x2_8-0-4-1.glsl"
glsl-shader="C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\mpv\Shaders\KrigBilateral.glsl"
glsl-shader="C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\mpv\Shaders\SSimDownscaler.glsl"

What are these for exactly?

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

@Chainik changing hdr-compute-peak=yes to no in MPV config solves HDR flickering in problematic non-DV HDR content, for example the bluray of Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania. Sending the HDR metadata directly to the display I guess instead of it being processed by MPV.

It has no impact on DV though, yes or no, it appears the same exactly (stutter instead of flicker now). Is MPV always processing DV metadata? Maybe that causes an issue, not sure, just letting you know in case you want to investigate it further.

dawkinscm wrote:

To be fair this is a very much cleaned up version. I'm curious if this different to the one I commented on because if it isn't then I owe you an apology smile

On this cleaned up version, you don't need  hwdecs-copy=all and you are not using tscale. On my setup, Error-diffussion in general isn't required for gpu-next coz Ordered works as well or better and costs almost zero resources. Again on my system, if error-diffusion is used then Burkes is worse than Floyd. After that the shaders are personal preference.

Good job big_smile

No that was the cleaned up version and thanks for extra info.

Xenocyde wrote:

What are these for exactly?

Scaling methodology.

Dithering methodology.

The shaders at the bottom (which have to be downloaded and added into a shaders folder separately) improve quality. FSRCNNX is an upscaler, while KrigBilateral is a chroma upscaler, SSimDownscaler is for downsampling.

You can read more about them on their pages. But also, if you want an article explaining them, as well as better shaders that are more demanding which I cannot run with an RTX 3090 while using RIFE, have a read through this: https://artoriuz.github.io/blog/mpv_upscaling.html

1,765 Reply by dawkinscm (edited by dawkinscm 12-07-2024 07:43:09)

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Blackfyre wrote:
Xenocyde wrote:

What are these for exactly?

Scaling methodology.

Dithering methodology.

The shaders at the bottom (which have to be downloaded and added into a shaders folder separately) improve quality. FSRCNNX is an upscaler, while KrigBilateral is a chroma upscaler, SSimDownscaler is for downsampling.

You can read more about them on their pages. But also, if you want an article explaining them, as well as better shaders that are more demanding which I cannot run with an RTX 3090 while using RIFE, have a read through this: https://artoriuz.github.io/blog/mpv_upscaling.html

First here's the appology I owe you. I must have been reading with old, assuming eyes smile

As for the shaders, just like Rife, a lot of this applies to Anime and results are based on machine generated scores. I've had almost every shader in my config at one point or another including the 3 above. Krig is technically it is better than default but visually speaking the difference myself and others have found is negligible. Since I read that it can generate also errors I stopped using it.  SSSimDownscaler might be great for Anime but when used with video content it's too sharp even for me, but especially when tested with calibration tools. FSRCNNX is a GPU killer for anything above 1080p. I've been using it to upscale low res poor quality content but i recently removed it because like the other AI based upscalers it made little visual difference. That's why I initially said that it's personal taste and machine generated scores.

Nowadays I mostly use in-built scalers.

1,766 Reply by flowreen91 (edited by flowreen91 12-07-2024 09:27:29)

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

dawkinscm wrote:

Nowadays I mostly use in-built scalers.

I found this link with upscaler examples really useful:
https://github.com/LitCastVlog/Plex-GLSL-Shaders

the ultimate goal is to improve visual quality, so we will always try to pick the combination that makes it look better overall
can u please explain which in-built scalers combination u use so we can try that too?
i preffer to set max visual quality + resize down until GPU stops dieing, than watch pure image native 24 fps. xD

1,767 Reply by oriento

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

New version
4.19 (Add SportsSlomo) - 2024.07.12

1,768 Reply by dawkinscm (edited by dawkinscm 12-07-2024 11:33:59)

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

oriento wrote:

New version
4.19 (Add SportsSlomo) - 2024.07.12

Thanks. Not sure how to actually use SportsSlomo. But it is clearly worse than v4.15/4.18 and maybe even worse than v4.9.

1,769 Reply by dawkinscm (edited by dawkinscm 12-07-2024 17:03:56)

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

flowreen91 wrote:
dawkinscm wrote:

Nowadays I mostly use in-built scalers.

I found this link with upscaler examples really useful:
https://github.com/LitCastVlog/Plex-GLSL-Shaders

the ultimate goal is to improve visual quality, so we will always try to pick the combination that makes it look better overall
can u please explain which in-built scalers combination u use so we can try that too?
i preffer to set max visual quality + resize down until GPU stops dieing, than watch pure image native 24 fps. xD

I've found that the key to the best picture quality is basic picture calibration. Get the brightness, contrast, saturation and gamma right and 90% of the work is done. You need a calibration disc like Spears & Munsil for this. Like @Blackfyre, my MPV config has evolved over time and is now much simpler. MPV has been around for years and its defaults are set after dev testing, discussion and years of user feedback, some of which I have read.

I set SVP downscale to Bilinear to remove any obvious sharpening done by SVP. Lanczos is a great default but even with the mildest MPV scaling algorithm I sometimes see bad effects like ringing when used with SVP sharpening. This is NOT a problem with SVP, just a consequence of double sharpening so I want full control over sharpening post downscale.

I use Lanczossharp which is the default scaler. For movies on a large screen it's not actually that sharp, but it might be the most natural of the sharp scalers. For additional sharpening I use Contrast Adaptive Sharpening because it gives more fine tune control. But you can get a similar affect with a lot less hassle using the Adaptive Sharpening shader and others. Maybe also SSIMDownscaler.

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

oriento wrote:

New version
4.19 (Add SportsSlomo) - 2024.07.12

Tested v2, worse than 4.16v2 (which is the main one I use). So back to 4.16v2 for me.

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Did anybody try to manually update the TRT libraries to v15.1: latest TensorRT library? Any benefits over the standard TRT install from SVP?

1,772 Reply by flowreen91 (edited by flowreen91 13-07-2024 09:15:11)

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

donnieyeen wrote:

Did anybody try to manually update the TRT libraries to v15.1: latest TensorRT library? Any benefits over the standard TRT install from SVP?

According to Chainik, we should not upgrade yet cause we only get "10-15% performance drop":
https://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopi … 612#p84612
For now i would recommend to upgrade with TRT 9.2 from here which fixes a pixels shake issue on rife (v2) models (IF you are using those):
https://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopi … 795#p84795

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

donnieyeen wrote:

Did anybody try to manually update the TRT libraries to v15.1: latest TensorRT library? Any benefits over the standard TRT install from SVP?

Don't upgrade. Both myself (twice) and @Chainik have already explained why. The next version will hopefully be fixed.

1,774 Reply by RickyAstle98 (edited by RickyAstle98 13-07-2024 14:57:02)

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

donnieyeen wrote:

Did anybody try to manually update the TRT libraries to v15.1: latest TensorRT library? Any benefits over the standard TRT install from SVP?

TRT library 9.2 (4070) : 4.15v2 lite = 720p@24 x7 without drops
TRT library 15 : 4.15v2 lite = 720p@24 x5 with drops

1,775 Reply by Xenocyde (edited by Xenocyde 13-07-2024 16:23:30)

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Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Blackfyre wrote:
oriento wrote:

New version
4.19 (Add SportsSlomo) - 2024.07.12

Tested v2, worse than 4.16v2 (which is the main one I use). So back to 4.16v2 for me.

Tested normal and V2, they seem worse overall than 4.16 and 4.18.